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Burnaby, BC
Canada
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2012 : 11:46 AM
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No different than Revy locals who solo up Sir Donald's NW ridge for a morning stroll, while other parties are belaying every pitch, taking a full day (or more). It all depends on comfort level and ability. He's not crazy, just incredibly skilled, and supremely confident.
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Surrey, BC
Canada
140 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2012 : 11:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
Check out these soloing/running out badasses:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxJSC1oOJmM
LOL crack climbing with no cams/nuts. Those guys aren't daredevil climbers, just inexperienced fools more interested in their own vanity than the climb itself. And even though it's mid 5th (not exactly tough technical terrain) he's pulling that crap on a route he hasn't done before. This video is everything climbing SHOULDN'T be. Kudos on the youtube find. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3502 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2012 : 12:46 PM
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I missed the part at about 8:30-9:00 where they'd "water knotted" two ropes together and he's "over 100 feet past my last clip-in-point." (I wonder if they really used a water knot on the ropes? sheesh...)
??? Okay, I get that people solo stuff, etc, but why go through all the hassle of monkeying around with the rope and crap (and prussiking up, etc) if you're going to face a 200'+ fall directly onto the belay?
At about 9:30, the leader scans the camera across the rope to the "clip in point" which is two bolts, and he's got two draws, which is fine. But, the rope is knotted into the anchor and I can't see how the leader is attached. I have a feeling at that point he's just standing there.
I think it would have been better just to solo the whole thing. Imagine if the leader had taken that 200' fall directly onto the single bolt? Seems to me that something would have given out. (The guys spine?) |
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Kootenay Bud
2695 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2012 : 4:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by NathanC
No different than Revy locals who solo up Sir Donald's NW ridge for a morning stroll, while other parties are belaying every pitch, taking a full day (or more). It all depends on comfort level and ability. He's not crazy, just incredibly skilled, and supremely confident.
Not really. Sir D is 5.4 and not sustained at 5.4 (can 5.4 be sustaind????). It's actually pretty easy to solo. |
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Abbotsford, BC
Canada
183 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2012 : 6:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steventy
Amazing accomplishments. At the same time, I can't help but wonder why we glorify free soloing but we would never glorify skiing without avy gear or playing football without a helmet.
Maybe we should have Indy drivers go out with out their helmets, fire retardant suits, 5 point harness... |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 07:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NathanC
No different than Revy locals who solo up Sir Donald's NW ridge for a morning stroll, while other parties are belaying every pitch, taking a full day (or more). It all depends on comfort level and ability. He's not crazy, just incredibly skilled, and supremely confident.
Not really. Sir D is 5.4 and not sustained at 5.4 (can 5.4 be sustaind????). It's actually pretty easy to solo.
OK Sandy. Poor example. . . but falling off "sustained 5.4" on Sir D is still gonna hurt (and may likely kill you). . . but as you said. . . not that hard to solo. . . and really pretty common. Just because I wouldn't do it, doesn't make others bat-shit crazy.
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Whistler, BC
Canada
422 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 10:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by rustysheep
quote:
Originally posted by Steventy
Amazing accomplishments. At the same time, I can't help but wonder why we glorify free soloing but we would never glorify skiing without avy gear or playing football without a helmet.
Maybe we should have Indy drivers go out with out their helmets, fire retardant suits, 5 point harness...
See I think this is an example of ignoring the benefit Mr. Honnold receives from the risk he takes. I think people consistently confuse the concepts of risk and risk management.
Soloing is nothing like climbing with gear and a partner. Its not the same at all. Therefore there are benefits for some folks in soloing that they would't receive from belayed climbing with a partner. To them the benefits of such activity are worth increased risk. Leaving out a method of risk management does not necessarily mean that all management of risk ceases.
I for one don't feel that I would benefit from the risks of soloing enough to do it at a high level. I get enough of a buzz from climbing on lead belayed from below. Therefore I take on a greater chance of falling (because of lack of competence) but employ risk management by using a partner, gear, rope to compensate for that increased risk to myself.
Alex Honnold has much greater competence on rock than I (obviously), and seems to be climbing well within his abilities. In some ways, I think he is managing the risk more effectively than I using a rope in the event of a fall because he is controlling the situation to the point of never losing control. Just because I'm tied in to a rope and an anchor doesn't necessarily mean I'm at any less potential risk. Conceivably, if my methods of managing the risk fail I will still be injured or die. The rope is simply a way to manage that potential risk which is in fact higher in my case because I fall more much more often and am under constant threat of coming off the rock.
I don't think skiing without avy gear for the sake of skiing without avy gear is the same thing at all. Skiing with or without avy gear, all other things equal, you are taking the same amount of risk at any given point but without the gear (Which like climbing doesn't work without the partner) you are choosing to not manage that risk. What would be the benefit of such a measure (Skiing without Avy gear)? Same question for the race car drivers.
There is such thing as soloing in backcountry skiing. Am I taking on more risk by doing so? No, and if I am prudent I will actually take less risk. Avy gear would be a useless measure to me in this situation so I do not have that method of risk management available to me. Therefore if I am to continue to manage the risk effectively I need to make sure I stay well within my competency. Competency in avoiding avalanches and competency in avoiding injury in general, so I suppose I would have to take on less real risk while without some method of risk management.
For the Football helmets there would actually be less risk without the measures to protect the players from risk. huh? I hear everyone's head spinning. The rules of the game have been relaxed and the players feel more confident hitting harder even using their heads for contact since the adoption of helmets. Same goes for increasing prtotective equipment in hockey etc. to a point.
I remember talking about risk management with one of the lead guides at a river rafting operation in Fernie, BC. In a few consecutive years, several incidents at other operations occurred within the province involving guests' incapacitation due to cold water in glacially fed rivers. The gov't then felt it necessary to legislate the use of 5mm neoprene wetsuits at all operations at all times. Good risk management! Except for in Fernie, where the Elk River is not glacial and warms to 17 degrees in mid-summer. With marginally fit folks, wearing 5mm neoprene, paddling a boat under 35 degree sun and nowhere to cool off, you can imagine what was taking place. This is another example of the risk management methods creating the hazard anew.
Risk is something people have to come to grips with as individuals. There are many risks that are systemic functions of being alive, living within an interconnected community, and there are some we willingly choose to expose ourselves to in order to obtain some benefit. For all, risk management procedures are used to compensate for risks, not to remove or even reduce them. |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7093 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 11:44 AM
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Excellent info Summit Seeker, you explained it rather well.
I thought I'd see what other climbing videos are out there, and found on the wikipedia website he did a citbank advertisement with Katie Brown (An American female big wall free solo rock climber):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE4bcq8Plzk
Cool video! Using Gear. |
Edited by - AcesHigh on 01/09/2012 11:45 AM |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1461 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 1:31 PM
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Katie Brown isn't much of a free soloist AFAIK.
Alex Honnold has spent some time in Squamish over the past couple of summers. Done some bold routes and solos.
I don't see his soloing as being much more risky than driving a motorcycle at highway speeds. Similar level of control, similar random hazard risk and similar consequences when something goes wrong. If anything, free soloing imposes a smaller risk to others in that a lot of motorcycle accidents affect at least one other vehicle.
Although he isn't the physically strongest climber, he is on another planet as far as free soloing and R rated climbing goes. Lots of other climbers can climb harder roped. |
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681 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2012 : 7:26 PM
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The risk in this case is that one mistake is fatal, the longer he keeps doing it the greater the odds the one mistake will occur. So when /or will he stop?
The motorcylce analogy seems apt, but in that case one can make numerous small errors and still survive, or mitigate risk by driving moderately, or be killed by someone elses mistake, or just injured [not an option free soloing].
His is a fantastic achievement, but the odds must eventually not work in his favor if he continues. |
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Alex Honnold - No Rope & No Fear - Free Soloing
