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 Ten controversial issues re:bottled water
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dcongrav
Junior Member



154 Posts

 Posted - 02/28/2005 :  3:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply to this posting
Several CT members have commented on the use of bottled water and what they consider a rip-off. This article may help back up their opinions:

Tapped water
Polaris Institute airs ten controversial issues concerning bottled water.
Dateline: Saturday, February 19, 2005
by Tony Clarke

1. Price Gouging What kind of price mark-ups do we find in the bottled water market?

Single serving bottles of water range in price from $1.00 to $1.75 US, by contrast the same amount of tap water costs a fraction of this price. The US Natural Resources Defense Council has estimated that bottled water is between 240 and 10,000 times more expensive than tap water. For Coca-Cola or Pepsi, who draw the water for their products directly from municipal taps, this price mark-up is astonishing. But it is even more shocking in the case of Danone or Nestlé because they pay little or nothing for the water they take out of groundwater streams and aquifers.

2. Water Takings When the label on the bottle says "pure spring water," where does the water really come from, who owns it, and how is it regulated?

In the US, bottled water companies are not required by law to disclose the source and geographical location of their water takings on their labels. In Canada they are, but only for takings from underground water. Water takings are also largely unregulated in both countries, where there are more laws governing surface waters than there are for groundwater. Where groundwater regulations do exist, they differ, often dramatically from state-to-state and from province-to province. As a result of the lax regulatory environment, bottled water labels are often very misleading.

3. Transforming Water What kinds of filtering and processing methods do companies use to turn "real" water into bottled water? What's the difference between bottled water and tap water?

The Big-4 bottled water companies imply their elaborate "proprietary" treatment processes are the justification for the higher cost of their products. Yet, unlike other raw materials such as timber, minerals, oil, and gas, which are transformed into identifiably new products, bottled water is, simply water transformed into water. The industry's treatment processes do not guarantee that bottled water is safer than tap water; in fact, a number of studies have demonstrated that bottled water is often less safe than tap water. Consider that one treatment process uses bromate, which is considered to be a carcinogen.

4. Contaminating Water What evidence is there to support the industry's claim that bottled water is superior to tap water?

The International Bottled Water Association proclaims that bottled water is superior to tap water. Yet several peer-reviewed scientific studies have found disturbing concentrations of toxic ingredients such as arsenic and mercury in their bottled water samplings. When Coca-Cola launched its Dasani product in the UK in March 2004, it had to withdraw nearly half a million bottles due to bromate contamination. Bottling plants face inspections only once every 3-to-6 years depending on the country and regulations governing tap water are often stricter than those governing bottled water.

5. Marketing Schemes What kinds of marketing and advertising schemes are used by the companies to sell what is really "water transformed into water"?

The tagline for Pepsi's Aquafina says it all: "So pure we promise nothing." Through relentless advertising, the Big-4 companies have turned bottled water into "America's most affordable status symbol". Using images that evoke "activity," "health," "relaxation," "pureness and "replenishment", the bottled water giants dupe consumers into buying something that largely exists in an imaginary environment. Industry slogans like "get hydrated or die" expose internal corporation contradictions such as the fact that the same companies that sell dehydrating soft drinks are promoting bottled water as a solution to dehydration.

6. Eco-Threatening What environmental damage is caused by the escalating use and disposal of plastic bottles?

Bottled water containers labeled with images of pristine natural environments are rapidly becoming a major threat to the environment and to our health. These containers release highly dangerous toxic chemicals and contaminants into the air and water when they are manufactured, and again when they are burned or buried. Yet these same plastics packages are becoming the fastest-growing form of municipal solid waste in the US and Canada.

7. Recycling Record What is the track record of the Big-4 when it comes to recycling?

Recycling rates for plastic bottles has been in steady decline since 1995, despite the explosion in plastic-bottle use. Not only has the industry promoted the shift from glass to plastic containers, and failed to live up to promises about using more recycled material in their containers, they actively oppose legislation aimed at improving recycling rates for plastic bottles, and requiring beverage container deposits. More sinister still is their use of a deceptive logo on their products that misleads consumers into thinking the product can be recycled, when the opposite is often true.

8. Manipulating Consumers Why are people turning from tap water to bottled water? What's really fuelling this new bottled water culture?

Ten years ago, most people relied on their municipal system for all their drinking water. Today close to one-fifth of the population in Canada and the US drinks bottled water exclusively ? demonstrating how extraordinarily successful the industry has been in luring people away from tap water. The industry is surgical in its targeting of the young, the affluent, the athletic, and the hip. It capitalizes on North America's fear and fashion factors to convince consumers to purchase its' products.

9. School Contracting What marketing devices have the bottled water companies used in cash-strapped schools, colleges, and universities?

Across the US and Canada, there is now a growing number of kindergarten to grade 12 schools, universities, and colleges that have signed contracts with Pepsi or Coca-Cola. "Exclusive beverage contracts", give these companies long-term high profit access to students in captive environments. Skilful management of these exclusivity contracts turn students into life-long consumers of their products. Resistance to the deals or competition is made nearly futile under secretive contracts that are cloaked from public scrutiny.

10. Water Privatizing What role and impact does the bottled water industry have on the privatization of public water utilities?

The world's largest for-profit water service corporations have set their sights on North America: Suez and Vivendi, (now Veolia) from France and RWE-Thames from Germany are eager to deliver privatized waters services, and companies like these are targeting the home/office bottled water market. The bottled water industry's marketing of "safe, clean water" undermines citizen's confidence in public water systems, and paves the way for the water companies to take over under-funded local utilities. In return, public willingness to pay premium prices for bottled water enables water service corporations to establish a top dollar price.

For more information or to order copies of Tony Clark's latest book, Inside the Bottle email to the address below. The cost of the book is $15 CDN + shipping (or $13 US + shipping).

Tony Clarke is the director of the Polaris Institute in Canada which works with citizen movements to develop new tools for democratic social change. As chair of the committee on corporations for the International Forum on Globalization, he works with social movements around the world on the theme of challenging corporate rule. He has served as the national chair of the Action Canada Network, and social policy director for the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops. He has a doctoral degree from the University of Chicago in the field of social ethics. Tony Clarke's publications include The Emergence of Corporate Rule ? And What We Can Do About It and Behind the Mitre: The Moral Leadership Crisis in the Canadian Catholic Church.



Edited by - dcongrav on 03/01/2005 05:04 AM

lonewolf
Junior Member



106 Posts

 Posted - 02/28/2005 :  5:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In Las Vegas tap water taste like it was drawn out of the toilet. No Lie. The price of bottled water there is outragous. Las vegas has no reason or desire to improve the quality or the taste of its water. About twenty years ago ther was a big uproar about the quality of water in southern california. State officials tested the water several times and proclaimed the water pure and of high quality. They finally had to admit that the samples were taken at the source (in northern california.) They later also had to admit, "a lot of things happen to the water befor it reaches the tap."
Another factor in the equation is fear. many smaller towns have substandard water. Instead of paying out millions to fix the problem, they keep it quiet as long as possible. As a consumer, you can sue a bottled water company that sold "bad" water for a tidy sum. Suing the government for "bad" water is far more difficult for a lot less money.

The bottom line is that consumers are being duped into paying those high prices for bottled water. Until the consumers wake up and realize how badly they are being screwed, nothing will change. In the mean time, buy stock in bottled water companies.

blackfly
Advanced Member

Manitoba's misadventurin' bushwhackin', dog sloggin', dehydratin', beer drinkin' biggie - who's eager to peak bag Mt Currie in a dress

Squamish
5078 Posts

 Posted - 02/28/2005 :  6:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting. Thanks for the post, Dcongrav.

It gets me that water is the most expensive thing to buy by the litre. Far more expensive than gasoline. I'll stick to my tap water thanks. Hell, the more bacteria and crap floating around in my system, the better (to a point), it helps to strengthen my immune system.

BCer
Senior Member

Buntzen roving stealthy beer mule and artist, aspiring weird image findmaster who loves BC

lower mainland
Canada

1647 Posts

 Posted - 02/28/2005 :  7:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Our very own Gibson's BC was just this Saturday awarded best municipal tap water in the world!! And Chilliwack got 5th!

http://www.berkeleysprings.com/water/awards.htm

Edited by - BCer on 02/28/2005 7:30 PM

lonewolf
Junior Member



106 Posts

 Posted - 02/28/2005 :  7:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Blackfly.
With that attitude you better have a roll of tp handy at all times! (insert smily face here)

Most people have no idea of the multitudes of bacteria in their bodies at any one time. Ignorance is bliss. A good immune system is the best defence. There are however some bacteria and viruses that I would rather not have the pleasure of meeting. In addition to bacteria, many water systems have pollutents like lead, mercury, arsenic, etc, that are not healthy in any amount. What is really scary is that whenever there is a major problem with contaminates, Bush orders the EPA to raise the limits and "presto chango", no problem.
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Dru
Mountain Grammar Police

Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids

Climbing, a mountain
Canada

∞ Posts

 Posted - 02/28/2005 :  8:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How dare Chilliwack drop to 5th! This means a water fight, Gibsonians! Even Bruno Gerussi's ghost won't save you from the wrath of the Valley
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exscape
Advanced Member

Outdoors addicted flyfishing, skiing, snowshoeing, hiking car crooner and resident motormouth

Da'Wack, BC
Canada

5391 Posts

 Posted - 02/28/2005 :  8:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not even Bruo Gerussi and a whole team of Irish rovers ....

*Thhhhhh - kuuuh* feel the power of the East side...

dcongrav
Junior Member



154 Posts

 Posted - 02/28/2005 :  9:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Additional information from the Natural Resources Defense Council:

Bottled Water
Pure Drink or Pure Hype?

This is the online version of NRDC's March 1999 petition to the FDA and attached report on the results of our four-year study of the bottled water industry, including its bacterial and chemical contamination problems. The petition and report find major gaps in bottled water regulation and conclude that bottled water is not necessarily safer than tap water. The online version contains all of the report's text, tables and figures; it does not include the accompanying Technical Report or additional attachments to the petition.

Complete Report: http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/bw/bwinx.asp

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Dru
Mountain Grammar Police

Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids

Climbing, a mountain
Canada

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 Posted - 02/28/2005 :  9:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can see why so many people think Anon E. Moose is dcongrav... same characteristic use of bold face, extensive cut and pasting, and hyperlinking.

Repressed_Hiker
Starting Member


London, London
United Kingdom

32 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  12:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I prefer to drink bottled water over municipal tap water any day.. I was raised on a farm with a 180 ft deep well. I can't stand the taste of chlorine.

Last year I was living in London, England and the water there was so disgustingly terrible that me and my friends from Canada had to buy squash (a juice concentrate) to add to the water in small quantities just so we could drink it.. even while extremely dehydrated from a night on the lash...

If I'm forced to drink municipal tap water.. I find a little bit of lemon squeezed in the glass masks the chlorine..

dcongrav
Junior Member



154 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  12:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Using almost any activated charcoal filter will eliminate chlorine smell and taste and is a considerably cheaper solution than bottled water. Brita and Pur are examples.

Anon E. Moose
Junior Member



398 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  01:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use a combination ozonator, and activated charcoal treatment appliance. It tastes great. There's no chlorine, and it's as good as or better than any commercial bottled water AFAIK. The cost of each unit of purified water is purportedly much less than bottled water, and less than Brita/Pur filtered solutions.

dcongrav
Junior Member



154 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  04:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What's the brand and model?

hikinguy
Junior Member


PoCo, British Columbia
Canada

216 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  05:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I used to work for a certain water company in Prince George (but is available down here as well), and I thought they were way over priced and had a marketing scheme much like the one mentioned above. However I will atest to their methods of purification. They do use quite a unique system in purifying their water, and 5 samples are put through 10 different tests every 15min to ensure quality. Their so called spring water does actually come from a spring near whistler, they only "clean" it so that there is nothing bad in it. I dont personally drink bottled water, Brita at best, its water....I am not going to pay $1.50 a bottle let alone .25cents...not unless there is sugar and kool-aid powder in it!

----------------------------------------
Why do they make 1 ply TP?

sourdough
Junior Member


Burnaby, BC
Canada

289 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  11:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After drinking tap water in NYC, LA and other large cities, Vancouver tap water is good enough for me. If you chill the water I really don't taste the chlorine anyways.

karmababy
Junior Member



299 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  11:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I always drink Brita filtered water from the tap. There is a noticeable tasted when it comes straight from the tap unfiltered.

My shower wall use to have green coloring on the walls after a few showers. Once I put in a $40 showerhead filter, voila! No more green walls. So, I figure over time, our insides have absorbed this green chlorine, how gross.

Frankly, I haven't found any bottled water that I liked. The taste seems off, maybe from the plastic, maybe it's the water source. When I heard that cheap plastic bottles degrades and contaminates the water it holds, that turned me completely off.

----------------------------------------
You don't die with dignity, you live with dignity - a TV show
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exscape
Advanced Member

Outdoors addicted flyfishing, skiing, snowshoeing, hiking car crooner and resident motormouth

Da'Wack, BC
Canada

5391 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  11:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Funny, I always thought the green colour was caused by the oxidation of copper pipes.

Most of the time I attribute the "taste" of some tap water to the chlorination of the water. Don't know about you but when faced with a choice between nasty micro-organisms and a little chlorine taste...I'd guess most people would choose the Chlorine especially when you're responsible for delivering potable water to the masses....
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Dru
Mountain Grammar Police

Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids

Climbing, a mountain
Canada

∞ Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  2:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most people don't get to make the choice. Public Health authorities would rather cause 1 case in 100,000 people of bladder cancer (trihalomethanes form from chlorination of organic compounds in water) to prevent 1,000 cases of severe gastroenteritis or other bacterial water-borne diseases.

The other case is that bacteria come not only from the source but from the transport system. Water is rechlorinated up to three times between the North Shore watersheds and Surrey to deal with bacterial accumulation from the pipes en route. You better hope they never switch Vancouver onto Harrison Lake as a water source.

dcongrav
Junior Member



154 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  3:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dru, are you stating that chlorination is a cause of bladder cancer? which according to you (no sources cited) is found in 1 in 100,000. You infer that it's cancer versus "severe gastroenteritis or other bacterial water-borne diseases"

I know you object to the use of weblinks, copy/paste and other methods of citing references and prefer personal opinion. Unfortunately, I'm not as knowledgeable as you so I looked up references to bladder cancer and came across what I believe to be a reliable source, http://www.urologychannel.com/bladdercancer/index.shtml (but then what do I know):

Incidence and Prevalence
According to the National Cancer Institute, the highest incidence of bladder cancer occurs in industrialized countries such as the United States, Canada, and France. Incidence is lowest in Asia and South America, where it is about 70% lower than in the United States.

Incidence of bladder cancer increases with age. People over the age of 70 develop the disease 2 to 3 times more often than those aged 55–69 and 15 to 20 times more often than those aged 30–54.

Bladder cancer is 2 to 3 times more common in men. In the United States, approximately 38,000 men and 15,000 women are diagnosed with the disease each year. Bladder cancer is the fourth most common type of cancer in men and the eighth most common type in women. The disease is more prevalent in Caucasians than in African Americans and Hispanics.

Causes and Risk Factors

Cancer-causing agents (carcinogens) in the urine may lead to the development of bladder cancer. Cigarette smoking contributes to more than 50% of cases, and smoking cigars or pipes also increases the risk. Other risk factors include the following:

* Age
* Chronic bladder inflammation (recurrent urinary tract infections, urinary stones)
* Consumption of Aristolochia fangchi (herb used in some weight-loss formulas)
* Diet high in saturated fat
* Exposure to second-hand smoke
* External beam radiation
* Family history of bladder cancer (several genetic risk factors identified)
* Gender (male)
* Infection with Schistosoma haematobium (parasite found in many developing countries)
* Personal history of bladder cancer
* Race (Caucasian)
* Treatment with certain drugs (e.g., cyclophosfamide—used to treat cancer)

Exposure to carcinogens in the workplace also increases the risk for bladder cancer. Medical workers exposed during the preparation, storage, administration, or disposal of antineoplastic drugs (used in chemotherapy) are at increased risk. Occupational risk factors include recurrent and early exposure to hair dye, and exposure to dye containing aniline, a chemical used in medical and industrial dyes. Workers at increased risk include the following:

* Hairdressers
* Machinists
* Printers
* Painters
* Truck drivers
* Workers in rubber, chemical, textile, metal, and leather industries

Guess what, I couldn't find your reference to chlorination. Now that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist but if the incidence of bladder cancer is 1 in 100,000 as you claim and after discounting all the causes listed in this cited article, then your chlorination statement as a cause of bladder cancer, puts it into negligible risk factor and only sows fear and doubt as to the safety of our tap water, and consequently pushes people into purchasing bottled water of even more doubtful quality.

Ok Dru, pour it on....

Edited by - dcongrav on 03/01/2005 3:39 PM
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martin
Senior Member

Grouse Grinding, GPS carrying, lawn chair packing, bike riding North Shore tech addict who stares at Crown Mountain from his office window all day

North Vancouver
Canada

1966 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  4:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Sourdough, keep the tap water in a bottle in the fridge overnight and it tastes fine.

I do remember Vancouver tap water tasting alot better in the early 80's though, seems like when Expo 86 happened they started adding way more chlorine to the water.

Shadee
sweet n innocent

ass wigglin, cheese lovin, 4x4 drivin, apostrophe hatin, hiking chick who loves camping on snow

spaceship..
Canada

7209 Posts

 Posted - 03/01/2005 :  4:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just for you dcongrav

http://www.tbdhu.com/factsheets/THMsFactSheet.htm

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