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Topic |
Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3792 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 9:32 PM
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The debate on whether Yoho/Kootenay/Robson and the like belong in the Alberta forum (because they are part of the Rockies) or the BC forum (because they are politically part of BC) continues.
I created a thread about this two years ago, and general assent seemed to favour the unification of the Rockies into a forum (but for a couple comments from the Vancouver area). Whenever it comes up, some people figure TRs should go where the forum says (ie. BC in with the BC trip reports), while others have decided to just go ahead and treat the Alberta forum as a Rockies forum for assorted reasons (commonly cited - because it seems more logical to those people, because they don't get comments/views when they post a BC Rockies trip in BC, because their trips get lost in the masses of Vancouver TRs, because it's part of a multi-day trip that would otherwise bounce between forums).
I haven't seen anyone really arguing against making the Alberta forum into a Alberta/Rocky Mountains forum, regardless of any other suggestions about possible divisions of the BC forum. It just keeps coming up and never really being addressed.
It has come up again and again and again and again and again this year (not to mention the uncertainty of the trips right on the BC-Alberta border), so I thought maybe it was time for another thread dedicated to the topic.
Could we please unite the Rockies? Are there any voices who regularly hike the Rockies who would have any opposition? |
Edited by - Rachelo on 08/27/2012 9:34 PM
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
331 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 07:43 AM
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I'll second this.
But I'd like to add that maybe we should further separate BC into Coast Mountains, Cascade Mountains and Columbia Mountains. I would be interested in seeing reports from the Columbia Mountains but I don't see any because I would have to look through a ton of Coast Mountain reports to find any. |
Edited by - ecoulthard on 08/28/2012 07:48 AM |
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 Best grilled cheese maker ever
Whitehorse, YUKON
Canada
2147 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 09:54 AM
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| Thanks for the tip (and reminder!). I'll talk to Jim, and see what he has to say. |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3792 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 10:45 AM
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I think it would make a lot of sense to pull out 'Interior BC' into its own forum (at least for TRs) and rename the 'BC-Mainland' to 'Coast Mountains' or something appropriate, just like Vancouver Island was given its own forum to separate its reports from the cloud of Vancouver-area stuff.
But even if there are more mixed responses on that, I think we could turn the Alberta forum into 'Alberta/Rocky Mountains' without needing support for reorganizing the rest of BC. |
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 | Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 10:50 AM
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| Any system of organization has inherent drawbacks. Just deal IMHO. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
606 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 12:45 PM
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Park-based boundaries, at least for Rockies, is something I'd offer for consideration. Banff, Jasper, Yoho, Kananaskis. Inherent problem with provincial boundaries, besides issues like trips spilling across the 'border', is also "this is mine" "this is yours". Park based division also addresses geographic proximity --- Edmonton folks would post most in Jasper, Calgary -- Banff and Kananaskis, etc.
Finer granulation could also be useful for SWBC. On sunny summer weekend dozens of reports (from Whistler/Pemberton to Chilliwack/Manning) get posted & forum gets saturated quickly. However this would need more careful planning. I'd suggest test try with National Park based approach & see how it goes and what people think. |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3792 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 1:30 PM
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Sure, nothing's perfect. But there seems to be general support from people who post and read Rocky Mountain TRs for them being in one forum, and I haven't heard anyone opposed, other than a couple Vancouverites who point out that the BC Rockies are in BC.
That's why I don't have a big stake in the Interior BC forum. It makes sense to me, but I don't have a strong horse in that race, and I'd rather not hang this question on a broader redistribution that never happens. But the BC Rockies question is a regular thing with people who use the area.
So why not give Alberta/Rockies a try? It seems to have worked well to subdivide Vancouver Island.
I can't see any good reason to subdivide the Rockies. I think the idea is to have a few TR forums, not a gazillion, and the Rockies don't get so much posting that each park needs its own forum. The Rockies in one forum would be actively used, but not so busy that TRs quickly get lost. And the Rockies are close enough as one whole that people from both Edmonton and Calgary seem to visit the other end reasonably often. Trips in Jasper get plenty of interest/views/comments from Calgary.
If you want to specify where the trip was, there are parks-based divisions you can title your TR under within one forum, but creating 4+ forums out of one that functions well (other than having half the BC Rockies reports) doesn't seem necessary or practical. |
Edited by - Rachelo on 08/28/2012 7:26 PM |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
331 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 2:07 PM
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| I agree with Rachelo. Top priority is to Unite the Rockies. Further subdivision of BC would be icing on the cake. |
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| Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 2:37 PM
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| I've done a couple trips that crossed the border between BC and WA but I didn't clamour for a unified Cascades Forum... |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
606 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 3:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ecoulthard
I agree with Rachelo. Top priority is to Unite the Rockies. Further subdivision of BC would be icing on the cake.
I am with you eric and rachelo. But it is also about site in general, not just one area that satisfies smaller percentage of users. Park based division could look too fragmented in Alberta as this forum doesn't see many posts; in BC it would not be the case.
Dru is 100% right - any system of organization will always have drawbacks. If changes are to be made, general direction in consistent fashion should be considered.
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
331 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 3:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dru
I've done a couple trips that crossed the border between BC and WA but I didn't clamour for a unified Cascades Forum...
Not sure what your argument is here other than shut up Albertans. |
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Maple Ridge, BC
Canada
773 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 4:40 PM
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| I (David)like Rockies, Columbia Mountains (Purcells, Selkirks, Caribou & Monashee), Cascades (anything in the valley/Coquihalla), Coast Mountains & Vancouver Island. It covers everything and would make it a lot easier when searching for past reports. |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3792 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 5:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by zeljkok
quote:
Originally posted by ecoulthard
I agree with Rachelo. Top priority is to Unite the Rockies. Further subdivision of BC would be icing on the cake.
I am with you eric and rachelo. But it is also about site in general, not just one area that satisfies smaller percentage of users. Park based division could look too fragmented in Alberta as this forum doesn't see many posts; in BC it would not be the case.
I just don't want this to get lost in questions about how BC could be better divided. I'd rather leave that up to its own debate and not wait Alberta/Rockies pending such an outcome which is likely a much bigger discussion with many more opinions that could probably stand to have its own thread. Sure, more can be done, but if we can satisfy a smaller percentage of users without inconveniencing anyone else, it can be worth doing without needing a whole redesign.
I suggest the BC Rockies thing because on its own, I think it would be a pretty non-contentious issue that we could do something about easily and stop discussing in every affected TR.
quote:
Originally posted by Dru
I've done a couple trips that crossed the border between BC and WA but I didn't clamour for a unified Cascades Forum...
That's nice. I guess we won't need a thread on unifying the Cascades. Do you have a problem with uniting the Rockies? |
Edited by - Rachelo on 08/28/2012 5:22 PM |
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Edmonton, AB
Canada
216 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 6:22 PM
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| I'm pretty sure he's being difficult for the sake of being difficult. I for one support this change. |
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| Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 6:30 PM
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I don't think "uniting the Rockies" is a good idea. The Rockies are not united anymore than the Cascades are united.
Also there are something like 10 years of trip reports in different forums at the moment. Any change in the geographic division of the forums means some poor schnook like Jim has to go and manually refile all those old reports. Changing any legacy system gets harder the older it is and this one is no exception.
Finally Google doesn't care which forum your trip report is in. It will find a 2-year old TR for Lake O'hara just as easily in the BC forum as in the AB forum. Therefore the only argument in support of the one-Rockies forum is the vanity one: "more of the people who matter will read my TR if it's in the forum they look at all the time."
Strip away that vanity and focus on writing a quality TR that people will read no matter where it is.
Edit: In other words, STFU Albertans. Go back to pumping your fossilized transfats through other provinces backyards.  |
Edited by - Dru on 08/28/2012 6:31 PM |
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| Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 6:33 PM
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| I would actually prefer to get rid of the regionalized forums altogether. Put all the trip reports in one forum called Trip Reports. End of story. It works fine for Supertopo. |
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| Engor
Intermediate Member
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Calgary
838 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 6:57 PM
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| I think that most Albertans on this forum will support Rachel's points. I don't think any redesign is needed. Simple renaming "Alberta" into "Rockies" will do the job. |
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Langley
240 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 7:03 PM
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| We shall never give up our BC Rockies. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we will never surrender. |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3792 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 7:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dru
(1)I don't think "uniting the Rockies" is a good idea. The Rockies are not united anymore than the Cascades are united.
(2)Also there are something like 10 years of trip reports in different forums at the moment. Any change in the geographic division of the forums means some poor schnook like Jim has to go and manually refile all those old reports. Changing any legacy system gets harder the older it is and this one is no exception.
(3)Finally Google doesn't care which forum your trip report is in. It will find a 2-year old TR for Lake O'hara just as easily in the BC forum as in the AB forum. Therefore the only argument in support of the one-Rockies forum is the vanity one: "more of the people who matter will read my TR if it's in the forum they look at all the time."
Strip away that vanity and focus on writing a quality TR that people will read no matter where it is.
1. I don't claim to know much about how the Cascades are hiked or reported, but the Rockies are pretty much one area on this forum. The people who hike the Rockies reasonably regularly hike both the BC and Alberta sides. The TRs posted for the BC Rockies are usually posted by the same people from the same areas as those posting about the Alberta Rockies. The Mainland BC folk (ie. Vancouver area plus a few scattered around) don't usually use the BC Rockies, except on multi-day trips which usually also include part of the Alberta Rockies.
One can certainly argue about divisions at all, but as long as there are multiple TR forums (which I favour, but that's another debate), the usage would suggest that the BC Rockies go with the Alberta Rockies much more than they go with the rest of Mainland BC.
2. There would be no need to refile old TRs. TRs for the BC Rockies are already scattered across two forums. I suspect everyone in favour of the change would have no problem if it was simple a going-forth measure with no back-sorting done. We could have all future Rockies TRs where they should be, and some old ones in the 'wrong' forum instead of all future AND all past TRs scattered between two.
I definitely think concerns about the old TRs shouldn't prohibit a decision for the future.
3. Yes, if you search them, it will find them no matter where they are. Another good reason to not worry too much about old TRs. But many who browse the forum browse individual areas, and like seeing an area together.
Personally, I read via Active Topics most of the time, so I see all the new stuff, but I don't click on West Coast trips very often. Even a really really great trip there is an area I don't know very well and am probably not going to plan on doing myself any time soon, and that lowers my interest. I suspect I'm not completely alone in that, and that is part of the reason Vancouver-area CTers don't tend to comment as much on Iceline TRs posted in the Mainland BC forum, no matter how well written.
Even if it were 'vanity'.. Many users get to know other users in their general area, and tend to be more interested in each other's reports than people a province away who don't know the area or the poster. Is that really a problem?
And again, does it hurt the Vancouverites at all? Even if we Albertans are nothing but a vain clique, does that matter to those who don't visit and don't comment? |
Edited by - Rachelo on 08/28/2012 7:25 PM |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3792 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 7:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by another jeff
We shall never give up our BC Rockies. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we will never surrender.
That works. You keep fighting on the beaches, fields, streets and hills.
We'll wave down from the Rockies. :D |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
331 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2012 : 7:34 PM
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| I'd like to also add that this decision has already been made since most Albertans already use the Alberta forum as a united Rockies forum. The only thing left to do is to change the name of the forum to avoid confusion. |
Edited by - ecoulthard on 08/28/2012 7:37 PM |
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Topic |
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Unite the Rockies!
