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Topic |
chilliwack, bc
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 7:02 PM
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On some hikes around the Fraser Valley I have found what seemed to be white thread.
At first I thought someone may have snagged their clothes or gear on a branch.
I had noticed it on Elk Mountain(Mount Elk for u trolls)
Last week we found lots of white thread on Slesse Mountain just after the Memorial and then as we were hiking the ridge toward the Propeller Cairn it was almost nonstop.
Is this used instead of breadcrumbs to find ones way back?
Perhaps Rumpelstiltskin is wandering the hills?
Anyone else ever notice this? |
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Popkum, BC
Canada
5887 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 7:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mhzman
Anyone else ever notice this?
Yes, it's survey string. You'll probably see new km signs on the trail as on Elk/Thurston. |
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Sunshine Coast, BC
Canada
251 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 7:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mhzman
Anyone else ever notice this?
In the vernacular of foresters, forest engineers geologists, timber cruisers and the like, it's commonly called "Hip Chain", and serves as the tape or "chain" in a device which provides a rough approximation of distance as the user walks along. The device, normally in a plastic orange canister, is buckled to the person's hip, hence "Hip Chain". Small, tightly wound bales, of thin, white yarn, are mounted on a spindle in the device. The yarn then passes through a distance meter.
The devices are a pain to use, often snagging and catching. The yarn is known to trap small birds, which I have seen occur in the Queen Charlotte Islands. However, they allow fast movement through the woods and suffice when approximate distances are ok. |
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chilliwack, bc
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 8:09 PM
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Thanks for the info.
I am willing to chip in a couple of bucks and if we all get together... maybe we can buy them a GPS!!!! |
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Sunshine Coast, BC
Canada
251 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 8:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mhzman
Thanks for the info.
I am willing to chip in a couple of bucks and if we all get together... maybe we can buy them a GPS!!!!
yeah, why anyone uses a hip chain these days is beyond me. unless in some very northern remote locale where satellite coverage is tenuous. |
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Abbotsford, BC
Canada
723 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 8:50 PM
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| On my last hike up to Elk and beyond I picked up hundreds of yards of that thread as I'm concerned about birds getting snared in it. This is not environmentally friendly. My GPS measures distance very accurately even under a heavy tree canopy. Who are these neanderthals? |
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 | Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 9:43 PM
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You "my GPS does all that" stuff people have no idea.
It's cotton.
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Surrey, BC
Canada
1036 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 9:56 PM
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I clicked on this thread thinking that some one is discussing Big Bang Theory and Higgs boson (God particle):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson
What a disappointment!
Hafilax, feel free to jump in.
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Squamish, British Columbia
Canada
1008 Posts |
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 04:21 AM
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quote:
What makes you bring up Higgs boson? It isn't directly related to string theory is it??
All science is connected! |
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Abbotsford, BC
Canada
723 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 09:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dru
You "my GPS does all that" stuff people have no idea.
It's cotton.
I don't care whether it's cotton. Yes it will degrade over time, but in the meantime it can still get entangled in birds' feet. I'd like to hear a good and valid argument for still using these "hip chains". |
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| Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 09:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by greyowl
Yes it will degrade over time, but in the meantime it can still get entangled in birds' feet.
That grinding sound you hear is my eyes rolling.
quote:
I'd like to hear a good and valid argument for still using these "hip chains".
This question uses simple math, so it may be over your head.
The error in a GPS measurement is plus or minus 20m. You are measuring the distance between two locations that are in reality 25m apart. What is the range of possible distances you will get from two GPS measurements? What is the improvement you will get by using hip chain, where the error is +/- 10cm? |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
1294 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 09:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by DCIPHER
All science is connected!
That's metaphysics - Silly String theory.
I tried to claim the Higgs boson they found since I lost one in the laundry the other day, but they just laughed at me. |
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Sunshine Coast, BC
Canada
251 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 10:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dru
This question uses simple math, so it may be over your head.
The error in a GPS measurement is plus or minus 20m. You are measuring the distance between two locations that are in reality 25m apart. What is the range of possible distances you will get from two GPS measurements? What is the improvement you will get by using hip chain, where the error is +/- 10cm?
No, it's not a question of math, and as an engineer, that would not likely be over my head. It's a question of cost/benefit. Rough approximations of length and/or area are useful at times. A Hip Chain Traverse can provide this, quickly and cheaply using only one person who can scamper along a compass bearing. Any calculation of error of closure of such a traverse would be significant, well beyond what conventional two-person, chain+compass methods provide.
With the good range finding tools available today, standard 2-man surveys, even using a silva compass, can be done without dragging a 'chain' or steel tape along making them much quicker to do than in days gone by.
And yes, Hip Chain thread is persistent, and birds do get caught in them from time to time. |
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| Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 10:23 AM
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As an engineer, you get right to the heart of the wrong problem. Nobody uses hip chain to measure areas. But it is used, commonly, to measure lengths, and for measuring straight-line linear distances, the question of cost is not relevant, whereas the question of precision is where it really shines over GPS, especially for measuring points that are close to each other.
If all I care about is whether two points are a km apart, there's no real difference to GPS vs hip chain, but if a whole bunch of points are relatively close to each other, handheld GPS is useless. You need differential GPS, and mostly that won't work under thick trees. Of course you could also survey with a transit and level, if you had all day. |
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 10:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tu
quote:
Originally posted by DCIPHER
All science is connected!
That's metaphysics - Silly String theory.
I tried to claim the Higgs boson they found since I lost one in the laundry the other day, but they just laughed at me.
OK....we have a problem.
First, I agree with you Tu....String theory is...questionable
Second, I DIDN'T SAY the stupid "All science is connected!" (what a ridiculous response...which apparently is exactly what was intended)
I SAID "What makes you bring up Higgs boson? It isn't directly related to string theory is it??"
My response was edited to make it look like I"m replying to myself.
MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN COMPROMISED.
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Dewdney, BC
Canada
473 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 10:59 AM
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Correct me if I`m wrong , but I don`t believe the GPS distance measurement includes a vertical component .
If you walk uphill on a 45 deg. slope for 100 meters on the GPS scale you actually cover 141 meters on the ground .
Distance measurements on Google Earth do give you both readings .
Wulf |
Edited by - Wulf2 on 07/06/2012 11:08 AM |
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Sunshine Coast, BC
Canada
251 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 11:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dru
As an engineer, you get right to the heart of the wrong problem. Nobody uses hip chain to measure areas. But it is used, commonly, to measure lengths, and for measuring straight-line linear distances, the question of cost is not relevant, whereas the question of precision is where it really shines over GPS, especially for measuring points that are close to each other.
well, in a fresh canopy opening, which was not surveyed and clearly not having scaled aerial imagery available, a quick run around the parcel with a silva compass and hip chain is just the ticket to do up a rough area, as long as no error of closure is required. A client of ours just did that, so we could have an approximate area to assist in hydrological assessment. frankly, i would have used a range-finder/compass combo two with guys, and done it a lot faster, and derived a meaningful closure error. That would have cost a wee bit more, so here's a client where cost does matter.
Cost always matters, and in 30 years of engineering i've never seen a situation where it doesn't. Always game to see something new though. Whatever floats your boat, i suppose.
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Fowl photographin, animal lovin, thread trollin, dry bag humpin, canoe canoodler
Vancouver, BC
Canada
4037 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 1:00 PM
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Higs Boson and String theory.... lets see. Both deal with the nature of physics at the very tiny subatomic level. Both are theories that would be incredibly difficult to demonstrate by any known means of observable experiment?
Ok, I suppose the LHC results make the later no longer true as it now seems that "nothing" is a particle too, and it gives mass to other particles ;)
I love particle physicist, rock stars of the science world. Theoretical physicists are cool too when they take their lithium. |
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Trail blazin', backcountry bushwackin', pine huntin', photo takin', long winded story teller
3838 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 8:58 PM
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| That string has saved my bacon on more than one occassion even during a rainy night where it clearly shone from the headlamp and got me safely off the mountain with a few twists and weeves. |
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chilliwack, bc
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 9:29 PM
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| This has been my best string....er thread ever! |
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String Theory
