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 Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13048 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2004 : 4:12 PM
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| This book tells the story of the 1996 Everest tragedy from the perspective of climbing guide Anatoli Boukreev.It's a credible version of the events,I think,and has an honest feel to it when compared to Krakauer's Into Thin Air.Boukreev later passed away when swept off Annapurna by an avalanche.A very interesting book,I thought... |
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 alpine seekin, therma loungin, java brewin, licorice whorin, stealth hikin, all weather trail guru
Pt. Coquitlam, B.C.
Canada
1772 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2004 : 4:31 PM
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I agree Mick. Not as 'slick' as Thin Air, and seemed to give an honest 'other side' to the story. I still think Boukreev got a bad rap from Krakauer, and wasn't too surprised to see JK recant a bit in the next run of Thin Air
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^^ Go Vertical !! ^^ |
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Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13048 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2004 : 5:18 PM
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I'd agree with that-in situations of extreme emotion people react differently,and what happened on Everest that year was a combination of circumstances.Group dynamics change under stress,and at 8000m minds dull and danger is everywhere.Not that I'd know,as I've only been as high as 14,110' and that made me dizzy enough! |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
148 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2004 : 5:55 PM
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I met Boukreev after we returned from the North side of Everest in 1996. He took the time to speak to us (though his English was halting) - the youngest team ever to attempt Everest - and asked us about our expedition. He was helpful, but you wouldn't know he was an extraordinary mountaineer to look at him.
For my own part I remember sitting at the balcony where Scott Fischer died at 8,500 meters and thought about the guys in 1996 in my befuddled state. I was tired, cold and scared - it was crunch time. I wonder how much worse it would have been if, like Scott, I knew I was going to make it down. It's the lonliest place in the world above 8,000 meters .... regardless of the best of intentions.
As a matter of interest we used Anatoli's altitude graph as a template for our own forays to altitude in 2003 on the south side. i actually took with me to Camp II to serve as a reminder of what can happen to the unwary on Everest. |
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Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13048 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2004 : 11:18 PM
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| Not that I'm planning to attempt the seven summits,Rapscallion,but I am quite curious about the training regimen you follow to prepare you for such an endeavour.Are there specific things that help you prepare for the effort besides the acclimatization routines Anatoli describes in his book? |
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opinionated-stove huggin'-fleece wearin'-arse burnin' hill virgin
Here
Canada
4642 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2004 : 10:08 AM
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Having read many accounts of that dissaster including Boukreev's, I think that the conflict was about expectations of what a climbing guide's job was. Krakauer was writing from the point of view of a paying client, and Boukreev, a climbing guide. Personally I think that Boukreev wasn't suited for the job. He was a great climber but I don't think he was chaperone material.
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"Function is beauty" |
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 right wingin', rock climbin', photo takin', computer geek
North Van, BC
Canada
742 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2004 : 12:18 PM
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I found Boukreev's book written more from a rebuttal perspective than anything else. While there is no doubt about the fact that he was a great climber, were it not for Krakauer's book being first out of the gate and stating this or that, I don't think Boukreev would have bothered to write a book.
If anything though, if you've read Into Thing Air, The Climb is a good book to give you a second, different perspective of what happened out on Everest. My guess is the truth lies somewhere in between.
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www.mplanet.ca |
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Van, bc
Canada
636 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2004 : 1:38 PM
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| definitley a rebuttal book. i read it before krakhauers and couldnt understand why he anatoli was trying to justify himself.... im sure the truth is in between. and an awesome read none the less. |
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alpine seekin, therma loungin, java brewin, licorice whorin, stealth hikin, all weather trail guru
Pt. Coquitlam, B.C.
Canada
1772 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2004 : 4:32 PM
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It was admittedly a rebuttal. For a couple more angles, there's Lene Gammelgaard's 'Climbing High', which she told me was not in response to Thin Air, as it was actually released ahead of it, in Europe. Also, I believe Beck Weathers had a late entry, which I would definitely be interested in reading. Anybody know the title?
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^^ Go Vertical !! ^^ |
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Victoria, BC
Canada
100 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2004 : 4:59 PM
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Waethers' book is called Left for Dead. I've heard that it's awful (the book I mean), but I'd like to have a look at it for myself.
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'I've said it before, and I'll say it again: democracy just doesn't work.' - Kent Brockman |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
148 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 8:10 PM
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I read Beck Weathers account of his amazing ordeal in '96. Unfortunately it did not live up to expectations and it seemed to be more of a cathartic journal aimed at healing the rift he had generated with his family. I certainly won't be adding it to my bookshelf.
Mick - as for training for Everest...I followed a very rigorous and phased training plan. My first goal was to summit Denali with no ill effects and with enough in the tank to continue on. After I managed that I started examining my personal strengths and weaknesses and recalled where I took strain on the North Side of Everest in 1996.
I 'enjoyed' over 250 individual training sessions on a predominately 5 day on, 1 day off rotation. I would try and pick one day as an endurance day (i.e. do an activity twice) and make most of the 5 days were high intensity training days. Each of distance activities (i.e. climbing and mountain biking) were timed and I expected myself to consistently post a time within my 'zone'. When needed I would extend my recovery to three days to allow for full recuperation.
A typical schedule looked like -
Day 1 - Mountain bike 60 km (great workout due to the inconsistent nature of the trails).
Day 2 - 45 minute stairmill (not stepmill) with 30kg pack.
- 45 minute X-trainer with 30 kg pack
- 30 minute stairmill with 30kg pack
Day 3 - Third pump of Mount Seymour. No snowshoes but wearing double boots and 30kg pack to posthole
Day 4 - Mountain bike 60 km.
- Upper body resistance training - dips, pullups and the like.
Day 5 - Third Pump of Mount Seymour. No snowshoes but wearing double boots and 30kg pack to posthole.
Tack onto that any of the expeditions we organized in between that. Pack weight varied depending on the amount of water I remembered to put into it. Most favoured approach was to 'get out there'.
As for acclimatization, we were all intimately familiar with our expected responses to altitude. We also underwent additional testing in a barometric chamber, VO2 Max testing and assorted other tests. There is no substitute for going high though.
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double-double seeking, snow-chasing, short-cutting, vertical feet collector
4523 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 8:39 PM
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hi Rapscallion,
Thank you for sharing the physical program that you undertake, to train for a climbing expedition.
Could you please share a little more about the mental training that you do? For example, what do you think about when you are on the trail to Seymour Third Peak? How do you visualize your approach to the peak that you are planning to reach (eg the far-away one, not Seymour  )
How do you maintain your focus - and successfully manage training while keeping family, work and friends close to heart?
cheers - C Wall
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Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13048 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 12:11 AM
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| Thanks Rapscallion for sharing the routine,sounds like hard work is the best training.That postholing trek up Seymour sounds like a beauty.I understand it's important to build strength because you lose a lot of muscle mass climbing at high altitudes.Was there any way to counteract that,or was it pretty much inevitable? |
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Night owl posting,Subie driving, backpacking Dad who is perpetually trying to catch up to his kids on the trail.
Vancouver, BC
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 12:59 AM
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I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but of the several accounts I have read of the '96 events on Everest, this was one of the least satisfying. While if offered an interesting perspective, it was compromised by its' rebuttal tone and the fact that the writer was relating Anitoli's account second hand.
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"Aging ... it beats the alternative" |
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Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13048 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 12:57 PM
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| Most definitely it was a rebuttal,and I think a lot of the reason he came across the way he did was due largely to the language issue.I can only imagine my confusion if I had to communicate in Russian.... |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
148 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 4:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by seawallrunner
Could you please share a little more about the mental training that you do? For example, what do you think about when you are on the trail to Seymour Third Peak? How do you visualize your approach to the peak that you are planning to reach (eg the far-away one, not Seymour )
How do you maintain your focus - and successfully manage training while keeping family, work and friends close to heart?
It's important to understand the consequences of incomplete preperation for high altitude expeditions. Without adequate physical and mental preperation you can die. Whether it be from just laying down and waiting to die because you are cold and tired, or whether it be because in your confused state you abseil off the end of your rope. The ultimate result is the same.
Keeping this in mind when I train this really provides the motivation for the physical preperation for the climb. I deny myself the privelage of saying there is no more left in the tank.
When training on the local mountains I project back to the hardest and most desperate times in my climbing career - without oxygen on the North Ridge of Everest, cerberal oedema on Mount Kenya, caught in a nightmare on Mount Elbrus, alone on Lost Arrow Spire - and I slip into a rhythm as the adrenalin charges through my body in it's fight or flight response. My pace quickens and my resolve crystalizes - I think about the summit ridge, or the crux of the climb and visualise the route and it's difficulties. What do I need to do, how do I need to do it.
Mentally it's all about breaking the mountain down into achievable objectives. Looking at it from the bottom and trying to project the effort required to get to the top is overwhelming. I break it down into camps, visible landmarks, or when I am really tired, breaths or steps. I read as many accounts of the climb by previous climbers as possible - when I first lay eyes on the route there should be no real surprises. Understanding the challenges and when they occur is key to pacing yourself - climbing is a marathon distance, not a sprint.
Having a balanced lifestyle when prepping for a long term expedition is difficult, if not impossible. For shorter expeditions it is manageable, for longer more intensive expeditions it is nigh impossible. In 2003 when I vowed to be in the shape of my life I exercised and trained every day in my schedule - every day. Work and social activities came second. The consequence of being ill-prepared were monumental. If I were to die on a mountain, I take a little bit of my family with me - so I have to make sure, that for my own and my family's sake that preperation takes priority.
I am fortunate in that my closest friends have always climbed with me, and that I have the understanding of my family.
I will now step away from the pedestal that I have been preaching from ... but you did ask! |
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right wingin', rock climbin', photo takin', computer geek
North Van, BC
Canada
742 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2004 : 12:27 PM
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To co-opt this thread a little bit, I read David Brasher's book (sorry, I forget the title) and while he speaks a little bit about the Everest tragedy in his novel, his book also speaks about his love rock climbing and indeed climbing in general. If you're looking for a well written book, and a book written by someone without and axe to grind, then I'd recommend picking up Brasher's. I'm sure one the local libraries will have a copy.
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www.mplanet.ca |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
148 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2004 : 1:31 PM
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MecKid, I think the title is 'High Exposure: An Enduring Passion for Everest and Unforgiving Places'
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N. Vancouver, BC
Canada
393 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2004 : 1:46 PM
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Hi Rapscallion,
Thanks for the info on what you do to prepare for your expeditions. I'm just curious, do you ever need to focus on core training and balance through something like yoga or pilates or body ball work? Whenever I see shots of climbers on Everest, it always looks like they are precariously perched on a ladder or the edge of a very steep drop off, so basically I'm wondering if you need to specifically train for that or if repeated climbing is the training.
On another note, I also really enjoyed Breashears High Exposure. He has this one great section where he talks about his first time stepping off a plane in Kathmandu. He shares all the sights and smells.
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Live like you are going to die tomorrow and learn like you are going to live forever - Gandhi |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
148 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2004 : 12:22 AM
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Interesting question Red.
I know of some climbers who practice balance and flexibility skills with a loaded pack in the safety of their home. Some suspend a ladder between two chairs, strap on their crampons and practice away. Unfortunately, I don't believe that it even remotely simulates a ladder that flexes and yaws over a gaping crevasse while you are struggling to breathe at high altitude.
Ice climbing and general mountaineering are obviously great ways to hone balance, recovery, and composure. I personally don't do yoga, but I do stretch to maintain flexibility and visualise while doing so. One of my climbing friends threw away his ego and 'scooted' across the ladders on his butt. He's 6"2 and weighs in at about 100kgs so each time he stepped onto a ladder the thing would scream as if he was torturing it! |
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Rmd, BC
Canada
1360 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2004 : 11:00 PM
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Back to 'The Climb....' I'm glad I read it. Found it repetitive & frustrating at times. Some more editing would have been nice. He came off (understandably) defensive which compromised the readability of the book for me.
Still.... good to get another perspective, especially from someone with such a different background & culture.
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The Mountains are calling and I must go. ~John Muir |
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The Climb-Anatoli Boukreev
