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3 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 10:11 PM
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Hi everyone!
Me and My dad are looking to do a two night, 3 day hike in the middle of August, and our eyes are set on the Indian Arm trail. Is there anyone who has hiked the trail recently who would be able to report on it's condition? It's been a bit discouraging scouring the internet lately with little recent talk about the indian arm trail. It does seem that the two trails; the trail to granite falls, and the trail to fannin lake; which connect to the section built by Don Mcpherson are still well maintained as they are talked about more readily. When we do go on the hike, we will make sure to post lots of pictures and updates on the trail's condition.
Thank-you all! |
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Van, BC
Canada
2793 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 10:14 PM
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Very rough and remote. Doesn't get hiked very often at all. From what I understand, parts are not very well marked and difficult to navigate. Hopefully you have a GPS track or some waypoints to follow.
-Ryan
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North Vancouver
Canada
745 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 10:47 PM
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| It is a remote route, not a trail. Not well marked or maintained and no trail foot bed in many areas. I did the west half a couple years ago and there was no markers or flagging in many areas. You need to be a experienced backpacker and skilled navigator, with a good map of the route. I would allow more than three days. |
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3 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 11:31 PM
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| darn! That's too bad. We'll definitely be on the hunt for a good quality map of the area! |
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1072 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 03:10 AM
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| The route is certainly rough, but that may add enjoyment, depending on your disposition. As for remote, I personally wouldn't qualify anything in that region as remote. As long as you're willing to keep putting one foot in front of the other and you're competent in your back-country skills, 3 days is quite reasonable. Good luck! |
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660 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 05:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kid Charlemagne
The route is certainly rough, but that may add enjoyment, depending on your disposition. As for remote, I personally wouldn't qualify anything in that region as remote. As long as you're willing to keep putting one foot in front of the other and you're competent in your back-country skills, 3 days is quite reasonable. Good luck!
So you've done the Indian Arm trail?
If so, I'm surprised you toss it out so casually as an easy 2-nighter to someone whose ability you don't know.
If not, you have no idea what you're talking about.
I did it back in '05. I find some of the chest-thumping braggadocio so common off-putting, I don't participate. Just to show I know what I'm talking, I was in excellent shape at the time (3 grinds in an evening all under 40 minutes, 2 or 3 times a week + whatever the weekend was). Same year I did the Stein traverse in two days, and Howe Sound Crest in 6 1/2 hours.
Took me an evening and two days, 27 hours of trail time, and that's pushing hard with a light pack. It has had very little traffic since then, flagging and clearing was minimal then and worse now. It may not be "remote" in the sense of map distance, but it certainly is in the sense that you will not see anyone for months at a time.
It was a wonderful experience, I loved it. But know what you are getting into. Two nights is optimistic. |
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2 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 08:51 AM
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Is this it?
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Smurf Village, BC
Canada
1498 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 09:05 AM
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quote:
timelessbeing Posted - 06/25/2012 : 08:51 AM Is this it?
Um, kind of. That's a starting point from the west, ultimately leading to Elsay Lake from below. But you could also start at the Mt Seymour parking lot. |
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1448 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 10:14 AM
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Personally singinggirl66
I would recommend if your thinking about it to attempt sections of it first. And if so have a backup plan, PLB, spot, sat phone or something. As this is serious stuff
As just the section around granite falls was overgrown and confusing at times.
Just like alexcanuck mentioned you have to be in super fit and willing to suffer. Suffer in the sense that your going ultralight with little comforts.
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1448 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 10:15 AM
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From the above track, the trail starts from seymour
quote:
Originally posted by timelessbeing
Is this it?
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1072 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 10:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by alexcanuck
So you've done the Indian Arm trail?
If so, I'm surprised you toss it out so casually as an easy 2-nighter to someone whose ability you don't know.
If not, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Issues? I never said it was easy, not sure why you're attributing that to me. Congrats on all of your awesome Grouse Grind times! |
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2 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 10:58 AM
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| Cool. Do you have the GPS file for that? |
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Van, BC
Canada
2793 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 4:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by timelessbeing
Is this it?
No, that's not it. That trail is known as the "Indian Arm / Elsay Lake Access" trail. It's an escape trail out of Elsay Lake (I think put in by NSR). I did about half of it last fall (no TR or pics) and it was easy enough to follow up to Vapour Creek (my turnaround point). Do not know about the rest of the trail up to Elsay though.
The Indian Arm trail basically starts at Seymour, takes the usual route to Mt. Elsay, and then veers off from there going up and over Curate, and Vicar peaks on the way to Vicar Lakes, and from there towards Bishop, Deacon, Presbyter and on to Fannin Lake.
-Ryan
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660 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 4:57 PM
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The Indian Arm route as described by Don MacPherson (the builder of the previously non-established sections) starts at Seymour, following the Mount Elsay/Mount Bishop route to the west of Mount Seymour and Runner, gaining the ridge briefly before Elsay, skirting Elsay to the west, back on the ridge to Vicar Lakes.
Vicar Lakes can also be accessed via the normal Elsay Lake trail, the Lower Elsay Lake trail or the NSR escape trail flagged up from the Seymour dam area. This route existed as an alternate approach to Bishop, and was improved and flagged by NSR as a non-flooding non-extreme avy risk way to evacuate from Elsay Lake. No option saves much time or effort, the Lower Elsay route adds considerable time. If a bike is used to the the NSR trail out of the Seymour Watershed it'll save a few hours, but then you have to retrieve the bike.
Don built the section beyond Bishop past Fannin lake to Indian River, and also from the end of the established route to Granite Falls the rest of the way to where it joins the Dilly Dally trail at Buntzen.
Note that all the legs mentioned are minimally marked rough bushwack routes except for the normal Elsay Lake trail and the Dilly Dally.
This is far from an easy trail. Close to 5000 meters cumulative. Nothing but straight up, straight down, knee-high brush or slide alder. You know those beautiful rolling ridge walks Manning is famous for? Almost exactly not like that.
It would be great if the route got more use so it stayed at least semi-distinct, but it doesn't. Between Bishop and Buntzen there is almost no traffic except the short section up to Granite Falls.
Edit: Clarify the four alternate routes to Elsay Lake.
"Is this it" mentioned above is the Lower Elsay Lake trail, from the first switchback on the Mount Seymour road to the normal Elsay Lake trai where it starts back up the Elsay Creek. About 3X the time as the normal Elsay trail. I've done that a few times.
I believe Don worked on that one as well. The NSR contribution was mostly just marking a good bailout route to some cabins on Indian Arm to collect people lost from a few sources. Most of the route was cleared and flagged by Don. |
Edited by - alexcanuck on 06/25/2012 5:37 PM |
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Van, BC
Canada
2793 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 5:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alexcanuck
The Indian Arm route as described by Don MacPherson (the builder of the previously non-established sections) starts at Seymour, following the Mount Elsay/Mount Bishop route to the west of Mount Seymour and Runner, gaining the ridge briefly before Elsay, skirting Elsay to the west, back on the ridge to Vicar Lakes.
Vicar Lakes can also be accessed via the normal Elsay Lake trail or the above-mentioned NSR escape trail. Neither option saves much time or effort. If a bike is used to the the NSR trail out of the Seymour Watershed it'll save a few hours, but then you have to retrieve the bike.
Don built the section beyond Bishop past Fannin lake to Indian River, and also from the end of the established route to Granite Falls the rest of the way to where it joins the Dilly Dally trail at Buntzen.
Note that all the legs mentioned are rough minimally marked bushwack routes except for the normal Elsay Lake trail and the Dilly Dally.
This is far from an easy trail. Close to 5000 meters cumulative. Nothing but straight up, straight down, knee-high brush or slide alder. You know those beautiful rolling ridge walks Manning is famous for? Almost exactly not like that.
It would be great if the route got more use so it stayed at least semi-distinct, but it doesn't. Between Bishop and Buntzen there is almost no traffic except the short section up to Granite Falls.
We're actually talking about two different NSR escape trails I think. The one you're describing is a b-line from Vicar Lakes down to the Seymour watershed just below the Seymour dam. The one I was discussing is a route off the normal route in to Elsay Lake that makes a b-line for Indian Arm (and then parallels Indian Arm heading south) and emerges at the first major (left) switchback of the road up to the Seymour ski hill.
And I agree - it would be great for this trail to get more use... I'd be interested in exploring it more and eventually doing the full loop myself.
-Ryan
Edit: we edited at the same time and are on the same page AC :)
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Edited by - Ryan.in.yaletown on 06/25/2012 5:11 PM |
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660 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 5:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryan.in.yaletown
-Ryan
Edit: we edited at the same time and are on the same page AC :)
Yeah, I didn't catch which trail the map was, got stuck at "escape trail". |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
2661 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 5:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by timelessbeing
Is this it?
Funny, I always thought that was the start of the route, though you could connect the "high road" for kicks.
quote:
Originally posted by singinggirl66
darn! That's too bad. We'll definitely be on the hunt for a good quality map of the area!
I believe someone was recently working on a map. Hopefully gearhed chimes in and tells us who, and whether it was ever published.
What are your criteria? If you wanted a toned-down version of the Indian Arm Route, you could go spend two nights at Elsay Lake, with a day trip exploring the surrounding area. The trail to Elsay Lake is what I call a "roller coaster" trail. Not significant numerically, but you'll use every muscle in your body by the end of the day, hence the roller coaster feeling. I wish my dad would go camping with me!
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3 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2012 : 4:14 PM
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We were looking to do a larger hike of 60-70 km that would take us about 3 days. Thanks everyone for all the feedback on the trail! We are going to go on one of the sections for a hike this weekend-likely up to granite falls. We will see how that hike goes.
Is there a lot of bugs/flies along the trail during the summer months? would you suggest light sleeping bags, or just fleece sweaters or blankets? To hikers who have done the hike before, how much water would you suggest bringing with us? How often can you find water on this trail? |
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660 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2012 : 7:16 PM
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Remember this is a rough backcountry route, not a trail. Don't call it a trail! I don't want to judge what shape you and your dad are in, nor your backcountry experience, nor your willingness to suffer a bit, just be fully aware that it is some of the toughest kilometers I've ever done.
Most of the trail is on or close to the ridge, there are frequent ponds earlier in the season but in a dry summer water can be scarce in sections. With the amount of snow still up there this year water will not be a concern. The longest section without reliable water would be from the tarns past Granite Falls to the Dilly Dally, and from Mount Seymour to Vicar lakes, although this year there will be a snowfield below Runner all summer, and probably next as well. I've been there every year for at least ten years and only seen it dry once, it's almost a glacier. Nights can be cool even in August, again some of the choice of gear is how much suffering you want. Plenty of bugs, especially this year with the cool wet spring we've had. I traveled with a light bag and a bugnet.
Suggestion: The route from Mount Seymour to Elsay Lake via the west side of Seymour, Runner and the ridge between Mount Elsay and Vicar lakes is very typical of the route. It takes me about 6-7 hours with a light overnight pack to Elsay lake, including down from Vicar Lakes to Elsay. Do an overnight trip of that route to judge. Camping is OK at Vicar, much better just maybe 1/2 hour down towards Elsay where you are in some meadows by a stream. And of course Elsay has a cabin.
There is a bailout option just before Mount Elsay, down the talus slope to the normal Elsay Lake trail. If you are tempted by the bailout don't even think of attempting the full Indian Arm!
Also, to my mind the most spectacularly beautiful area is shortly after you gain the ridge past Granite Falls where there are the most amazing tarns in hard granite. An overnighter there with a short exploration beyond the tarns will give you a good idea of what you're getting into.
You have seen the original description of the route by Don McPherson, of course? That was my guide, and pretty accurate too.
http://www.clubtread.com/Routes/Route.aspx?Route=477 Plenty of experience is vital for this route, it is far from a beginner-friendly introduction to back-country travel. It is an astonishing experience! Do it, but be sure you are ready for it.
At the moment, there is still pretty much full snowpack above 1100 meters except exposed sections. |
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1072 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2012 : 7:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by singinggirl66
We were looking to do a larger hike of 60-70 km that would take us about 3 days. Thanks everyone for all the feedback on the trail! We are going to go on one of the sections for a hike this weekend-likely up to granite falls. We will see how that hike goes.
Is there a lot of bugs/flies along the trail during the summer months? would you suggest light sleeping bags, or just fleece sweaters or blankets? To hikers who have done the hike before, how much water would you suggest bringing with us? How often can you find water on this trail?
I hope you like what you see on your exploratory trip. I think more people need to be encouraged to get out there and hike routes like this. Good luck! |
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North Vancouver
Canada
745 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2012 : 10:42 PM
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Here's some photos of a trip myself and a couple other members of North Shore Rescue did in 2006 to map the western half of the route. These give you an idea of the terrain and marking. The little flagging tape on the route was old back in 2006, I suspect it has not been improved.
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Edited by - NS Explorer on 06/26/2012 11:00 PM |
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hiking the Indian Arm trail
