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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 7:02 PM
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So, I needed to get out of the city. Took off a little early yesterday (Friday) and drove out to the Mt. Robson trailhead. My plan was do a couple nights, but the weather got crappy this morning, and the mossies are BRUTAL everywhere along the Berg Lake trail right now, and they chased me out. But, I did get a nice evening staring at Robson last night, so that was cool.
The trail is busy. Lots of backpackers. And, as always in the summer, I'm a little thrown off by the general disposition of the people I see. They're struggling. Folded over their trekking poles, laying on the side of the trail, kneeling in exhaustion, you name it.
Why? Well, I think the Berg Lake Trail (Ewan called it the Inland West Coast Trail) is a "bucket list" trip, so it attracts a lot of non-regular backpackers. If you're only doing one trip, who's going to buy a $500 sleeping bag? Not many. So, they end up with heavy gear. Also, I think many of the people are not normally very active (and if they are, they must work hard at staying really overweight) and so they're not very fit. Combine the heavy pack with a lack of fitness, and struggle is the result.
But, there's also other things that I have noticed. I stopped at Emperor Falls this morning, and a group of folks was starting down the little path to the falls just as I arrived back at the main trail. They left their packs and headed to the falls. OMG, I nearly took their gear apart and repacked their packs!! It was hard not to. So many people I noticed on the trail had large heavy items strapped to the outside of their pack, specifically to the lid. Ouch. Having something really heavy up there makes it hard! Lots of large, full, water bottles hanging on the outer most points, adding a lot of weight as far from their center of gravity as possible. Even with the heavy packs, a little redistribution of the weight would probably help them.
To the folks working in the outdoor gear stores: please sell people a pack that fits, and then show them how to wear it properly. I hardly saw anyone with a well fitting pack. Now, granted, that a man with a large belly has trouble wearing a hip-belt on his iliac crest, but we need to come closer than what I observed. Also, what's with everyone pulling their sternum strap so tight that their shoulder straps are touching? Who's showing people that?
I swear I was the only one that didn't have trekking poles. I must have looked pretty weird. Clack-clack-clack-clack. I confess that on occasion I do use a pole (one) if I'm going somewhere where I expect to need some longer-reach stabilizing support. Tricky boulder fields sometimes go a little smoother with a pole, and I have used one during fords to add a little stability to myself. But, walking up the wide, well maintained, and well-bridged Berg Lake trail? I fail to see any benefit. Perhaps a repacking of the packs would preclude the need for the poles?
Now, all that said, everyone I talked to was overjoyed to be out in a such a special place, and despite their struggle, greeted me with nothing but smiles. There were no "you must be unsafe" comments when eying my small pack, (as I've had other places) instead genuine curiosity how I could have so much in such a small and light package.
Okay, there was the one woman at Kinney Lake that I thought was going to call the rangers when she found out that I was going "all the way" to Berg Lake and starting out from Kinney at what she thought was a ridiculously late time. In the end she seemed convinced that I was capable, and left, like the other folks I met during my trip, with a smile and a wave. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3830 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 7:46 PM
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hodads?
I'm not sure how outdoor gear store workers are supposed to sell packs that fit and show people how to wear them properly when outdoor gear store workers aren't being hired for their knowledge and experience with such things.
I see a lot of people who figure that since you want to pull something to some degree, more is better.
As for poles, I tried them out a few years ago and ended up using them for everything. Even without a backpack I find I go faster and get more into a steady indefinite walking rhythm with them. They also save my bum knees on descents, which is nice. Though I also run into a lot of people who have been told poles were good, and picked them up, but didn't really learn anything as to how they would be useful.
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Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada
1332 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 7:47 PM
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| Jesus John, mellow out and try to enjoy your trip, rather than try to fix everyone's problems. Most of those hikers that were lacking, in your opinion, probably left with a pretty positive view of their experience. If you don't want to rub shoulders with inexperienced people, just don't go where they do. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 7:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachelo
hodads?
Is someone with crap hanging off their pack.
quote:
Originally posted by Rachelo
I'm not sure how outdoor gear store workers are supposed to sell packs that fit and show people how to wear them properly when outdoor gear store workers aren't being hired for their knowledge and experience with such things.
A certain outdoor chain of stores used to hire as many knowledgeable experienced people as possible, give them even more training, and train like crazy good people with less experience. |
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Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada
1332 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 7:58 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Rachelo
hodads?
Hodad's was a term that surfers in the 1960's used to describe inlanders that were learning to surf, but were inept and looked foolish, despite all the gear that that they acquired. |
Edited by - prother on 06/23/2012 9:31 PM |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 7:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by prother
Jesus John, mellow out and try to enjoy your trip, rather than try to fix everyone's problems. Most of those hikers that were lacking, in your opinion, probably left with a pretty positive view of their experience. If you don't want to rub shoulders with inexperienced people, just don't go where they do.
I was completely mellow! And I think I noted the high level of enjoyment that everyone (me included) was having. It just would have been so simple for many of them to have a little less suffering had they encountered a little pre-trip advice.
I do hope that many of them continue... |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 8:02 PM
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And climbers stole (borrowed?) the term from surfers to describe people with a lot of gear hanging and clanging off their packs.
Despite the seeming vast difference between climbing and surfing, there is a surprising amount of overlap. I think surfers make something cool, and climbers want in...  |
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 8:35 PM
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I think poles probably help me everywhere, but I refuse to use them until I get off an approach trail, and onto the "mountain". I resisted them completely until a few years ago, but I need all the help I can get on a scramble. The extreme example, and what I'm paranoid to avoid, is the ladies (and some guys) going through the city parks, or down the city sidewalks, holding the poles, as they swing slightly to and fro, never actually contacting the ground....
Speaking of Robson newbs...once I was on a trail for a training hike...ran into another lady I had seen a few times, who, to her credit, also liked to regularly get her exercise out there. After a while, she started regaling us with her ascent to the summit Robson! I had not gotten the impression from her before that she had done anything of that magnitude, and I was pleasantly surprised "oh really! wow! That's a serious peak!"
The friend she was with, who proclaimed herself having no knowledge of hiking, seemed surprised herself! We both listened, and I had the following conversation with her:
"oh yes, it's so high....and it's easy too...you can do it in a day!"
"oh...really? I've heard only a few parties make it every year!"
"oh, it's steep, but it's nicely graded, and it's just a tough walk up"
"really? Mount ROBSON? Well it's all relative I guess" (beginning to have doubts)
"yes, it's easy, and it's so high, you can see everything, on the summit you can see the curvature of the earth..." (maybe she really did!)
"wow."
"there's a lake up there too!"
"a lake? You mean at the base?"
"no, up at the top, it's BIG too!"
"Berg lake?"
"yeah that's it!"
"oh ok....but that's not really at the top"
"well not quite at the very top, but you're right up near the top, you can see the summit right there!" (gesturing, she shows us one hand representing the lake, and the other hand indicating the summit just slightly above it)
"oh, ok, so you didn't go to the summit though?"
"no, not quite, we stopped at the lake, but I'd love to go the last little way to the summit though"
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Edited by - DCIPHER on 06/23/2012 8:55 PM |
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Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13091 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 8:44 PM
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Yeah well that last little bit is a cakewalk |
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 | Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 8:59 PM
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| When you look at Google Earth they are right next to each other... |
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Sunshine Coast, BC
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 9:12 PM
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To Pole or not to Pole, hmmm. Well, after forty years of scrambling and slugging up and down mountainsides, trails and scree slopes, I keep going only because of three successful knee surgeries and those dang trekking poles. On the downhill sections, when the cartilage really can hurt, they are what keep me out of the surgeon's office.
yeah baby, Poles are us |
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1081 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 9:57 PM
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| Instead of starting a new thread, it seems you've given me somewhere to place my rant, as it concerns lame MEC staff. I just bought a new pair of mountaineering boots, i dunno, probably like the fifth or sixth pair in the quiver, filling a narrow void that my feet appreciate more than my wallet. Anyway, after asking to try on three different pair, the guy asked me what type of crampons I had before getting the boots to try on. I told him that it didn't matter, that I wanted to try on the boots I asked for, and find the best fit first. He insisted that it mattered. I told him that I had a few pairs of crampons, and that whatever boot fit best would not be without sharp things that strap to the bottom of them. He then asked what type of activity I would be doing with them, so that I could then select a boot that would fit the most appropriate crampon type. I said, 'Don't worry, I'll just ask another staff member to grab the boots I want to try on.' His response? 'Suit yourself', and he walked away. |
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Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13091 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2012 : 10:09 PM
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| That's odd, why wouldn't he just have brought you the boots you wanted? Anyone who has several pairs of crampons is usually a reasonably experienced mountaineer. Maybe he was having a bad day |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3830 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 6:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
And climbers stole (borrowed?) the term from surfers to describe people with a lot of gear hanging and clanging off their packs.
Very interesting.
quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
A certain outdoor chain of stores used to hire as many knowledgeable experienced people as possible, give them even more training, and train like crazy good people with less experience.
Yeah. That's what makes it so unfortunate. I never had high standards for the commission stores. |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3830 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 7:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by DCIPHER
After a while, she started regaling us with her ascent to the summit Robson! I had not gotten the impression from her before that she had done anything of that magnitude, and I was pleasantly surprised "oh really! wow! That's a serious peak!"
That is the craziest thing. I ran into a woman this spring who described her friend telling her about "doing Mount Robson" and how recommended it was that was obviously a backpack into the park. |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
112 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 8:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachelo
quote:
Originally posted by DCIPHER
After a while, she started regaling us with her ascent to the summit Robson! I had not gotten the impression from her before that she had done anything of that magnitude, and I was pleasantly surprised "oh really! wow! That's a serious peak!"
That is the craziest thing. I ran into a woman this spring who described her friend telling her about "doing Mount Robson" and how recommended it was that was obviously a backpack into the park.
LOL, you have to put up with that mentality in the running community too...just listen to the stories of all who've done a "half"-marathon without even training ;-) |
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2012 : 8:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachelo
quote:
Originally posted by DCIPHER
After a while, she started regaling us with her ascent to the summit Robson! I had not gotten the impression from her before that she had done anything of that magnitude, and I was pleasantly surprised "oh really! wow! That's a serious peak!"
That is the craziest thing. I ran into a woman this spring who described her friend telling her about "doing Mount Robson" and how recommended it was that was obviously a backpack into the park.
Yeah, lol. I'm not exaggerating, she repeatedly said "summit of Robson"...she was so blase about recommending it, that I had begun to doubt, but she pulled me back in with the expansive view from the "summit" in which you could see the very curve of the earth....
Mind you, the oddity is that she was being totally earnest. I didn't "see through" her, she really believed she was at, or alternately as the story evolved, very near, and essentially at, the summit!
I'm sure a great many people here about her ascent to this day!
I guess the funniest thing was that even her friend, who was being introduced to hiking by this lady, and was silent during this part of the discussion, was looking at her like "wth???!"
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Edited by - DCIPHER on 06/24/2012 8:53 PM |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3830 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 7:20 PM
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I am accustomed to people who don't really know anything telling me about hiking, but it seemed crazy to hear the Robson story I'd heard as told to someone else. Very odd.
I love the people I run into who tell me they also love hiking, and have I heard of Grassi Lakes? They'd like it for their next day hike, but have heard it's tough due to the steep hill. But hey, they're getting out and enjoying themselves. I don't mean a hit - it's just amusing. |
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Maple Ridge, BC
Canada
359 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 08:21 AM
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| A hill is a hill, right guys? If you've climbed alouette mountain, you've climbed Denali. Just last week I was standing on top of my trail run at Malcolm Knapp Research Forest and I thought, "Yeah, difference between this and K3 is a snowsuit." I'm pretty much already ueli steck, I just need more gear, is what I'm saying. |
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Victoria, British Columbia
Canada
392 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2012 : 2:46 PM
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| The friend of a friend of a mine claimed to be heading to Nepal to "do" Everest a few years ago. Base Camp was what she meant, but she really did see it as conquering the mountain. |
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A sea of trekking poles and hodads...
