| Author |
Topic |
Calgary
71 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 1:04 PM
|
Hi Everyone -
I have mostly been doing long day hikes and scrambles, with a few summer weekends of one or two-nighter backpacking trips. Usually my pack comes in around 35-40 pounds for those (including to backcountry hut trips in winter), so I have decided to slowly upgrade my gear to be able to eventually (hopefully by next summer) go lightweight and be able to go backpacking with all my own gear (i.e., no shared tent or stove). One of my main to-hike trips will be the West Coast Trail, so I'm currently looking for advice on gear. I'd like to start with a sleeping system (sleeping bag, pad, and stuff sack for it), and ideally keep that all under 3 pounds.
SLEEPING BAG
A few question for the sleeping bag:
- I am still drawn to down as it compresses so small, but am concerned about moisture, especially on BC trips (I'm in Alberta, so have been mostly blessed with dry backpacking weather). What are your experiences with down bags on the WCT?
- What temperature rating would you go to?
- What are your experiences once a bag actually gets wet?
- I do like MEC's Aquila bag, but it's syill 972g (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/SleepingBags/DownMummyBags/PRD~5025-510/mec-aquila-sleeping-bag-0c.jsp).
- Has anyone used the Western Mountaineering bags? Ultra lightweight, and I am currently drawn to the Summerlite bag, which is 525g and available through special order from MEC (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/SleepingBags/DownMummyBags/PRD~5010-253/western-mountaineering-summerlite-sleeping-bag-0c.jsp). I stuffed one into a stuff sack at MEC yesterday and you can quite easily squeeze it down to ~3L. If I can get weight AND volume down, I'm thinking that should translate into being able to fit everything into my 60L backpack.
- For what it's worth, I currently have the MEC Hybrid -12ºC bag, which is great (and I use it more like a quilt in summer, though it's still warm then), but bulky and heavy (about 1.7kg).
SLEEPING PAD
- For the sleeping pad I'm thinking maybe something like the Thermarest ProLite, but open to suggestions there as well (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/SleepingBags/SleepingPadsInflating/PRD~5027-421/therm-a-rest-prolite-sleeping-pad.jsp)
STOVE
- Currently I use the Trangia Small, which is pretty bomb-proof (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/MemberPicks/HikingCamping/PRD~5016-865/trangia-small-non-stick-pot-set-and-stove.jsp). It's bulky though, so I've been intrigued by MSR's new Poclet Rocket, 85g (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/HikingCamping/StovesFuel/Stoves/Canister/PRD~4015-419/msr-pocketrocket-stove.jsp). It's tiny, but never having seen it in use, I'm wondering if it would be a bit flimsy under windy or moist conditions. It's recommended for weekend trips. Would it not stand up for a week-long trip?
TENT
- I haven't focused in on a tent yet, but would want a 2 person to use just for myself in order to have some extra space. I like the vestibules on the sides (they seem roomier), similar to the Hubba Hubba. So far the Big Agnes tents seem lightest, but the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2, which is the lightest I've found so far (and which has a front vestibule), isn't fully self-supporting, which is a drawback for me (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Tents/3SeasonTents/2Person/PRD~5021-556/big-agnes-fly-creek-ul-2-tent.jsp). Does anyone have any experience with it or the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2? Although the latter is getting heavy again it seems.
TARP
- This is the first piece of UL gear that I just acquired: the ID Siltarp 2 (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Tents/LightShelters/PRD~5000-629/integral-designs-siltarp-2-tarp.jsp). MEC only carries the yellow and grey, neither of which I like, so I got it in green through an army/police supplier ... made in Calgary even. (http://www.tacticalmountain.com/servlet/the-75/Integral-Tactical-Sil-Tarp/Detail). Great service there too, and as they're local, I was able to pick it up the same day.
Lots more questions to come I'm sure, but that's it for now.
Thanks!
Barbara |
Edited by - BarbaraB on 06/15/2012 1:04 PM
|
|
Squamish, BC
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 2:45 PM
|
Barbara, you're going about it the right way but here's my 2 cents having done a similar thing over the last year or two.
You may want to look at the Thermarest Neo-Air instead of the Pro-Lite. Lighter and more comfy. Probably the lightest version would be fine for the WCT but it depends on whether you would also be using it in winter in which case you might want to splurge on the all season one. Only problem is they're not cheap.
I used a Pocket Rocket on the WCT last year (and I use it pretty much everywhere). I love it. I don't think you'd be disappointed in it. It's a great stove. Lots of heat control, small and light.
I won't comment on the tent or bags (others will I'm sure) other than to say I use a bivy to save weight when solo and also use a lighter bag and wear a layer or two when in it. If you want to go really lightweight you eventually have to decide to make those sacrifices like space (having said that a 2 man tent is more useful for more of the time if you have hiking buddy and if you're thinking long term).
Finally, there is one other area that can save you a reasonable amount of weight without too much effort (alongside your bag, tent and pad) and that's your pack. You can easily save a pound or two here with a good choice.
Good luck and enjoy it. |
|
|
| Eryne
Intermediate Member
|
Chilliwack, BC
Canada
579 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 2:58 PM
|
On a practical note, you won't use much more gear on a long trip compared to an overnighter, except clothes, food, and toilet paper. Therefore, if you can currently go overnight, you are probably okay for a longer trip.
I go every summer for 10 days with a 63 litre pack. I use general gear and put everything inside but strap the tent on the outside of my pack.
The best savings for weight and space is food. Make sure you have adequate, yummy food that fits into tiny containers. You can go freeze-dried, dehydrate your own, or hike with a burly food carrying partner. |
|
|
Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 3:04 PM
|
I'll wade in on Western Mountaineering bags. I have four of them, and they're worth their weight in gold, which is how some of them are priced. But, they're of the highest quality, still hand-made in the US.
I have the BeoThuk, which is not as warm as the Summerlite, and honestly, I should have bought the Summerlite. It's barely heavier, and has a full zipper.
As for down vs. synthetic, I have had both, prefer down greatly, but I don't live on the coast, so I'm not sure about how wet bags get. That said, I've had both synthetic and down bags wet, and neither was any good. |
|
|
 | Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
|
Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 3:08 PM
|
If you can keep your bag from getting wet - rainfly on your pack, waterproof stuff sack, whatever, and only open it out inside a dry tent - then it doesn't matter if it's down.
Some people are better at this than others. |
|
|
North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1655 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 3:35 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dru
If you can keep your bag from getting wet - rainfly on your pack, waterproof stuff sack, whatever, and only open it out inside a dry tent - then it doesn't matter if it's down.
Some people are better at this than others.
My feet always touch the end of the tent and so my bag gets wet there. It's one reason I have postponed buying a 100% down bag (I'm also using the MEC Hybrid -12.) Recently I've started putting my breathable waterproof jacket over the foot end of my bag and I think that helps but I'll have to try it one or two more times to be sure. |
|
|
1107 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 4:00 PM
|
The Summerlite is a great bag, although unbelievably narrow. If you ever want to layer in, it may be a challenge.
I have both a WM and a Feathered Friends and much prefer the latter (although this is like comparing Mercedes Benz to BMW). |
|
|
Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3830 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 4:02 PM
|
I've never heard a bad word about the WM bags, aside from the price.
I have the ultralite for Rockies backpacking, and it's beautiful. I moved to it from a 7ish-year-old Hybrid -12, and haven't noticed being colder. Obviously you can go much lighter on the coast or as a warm sleeper.
Prolite is a little more insulative, NeoAir is more comfy. but the new NeoAirs with a great R-value are pretty much blowing everything out of the water unless, again, you have an issue with the price.
The tradeoff between the mini weight of a canister stove vs carrying canisters and empty canisters makes liquid fuel stoves more recommended at a certain point. But it's not a matter of durability.
I don't believe many WCT campgrounds have tables or anything though, and the canister stoves (especially tiny little Pocket Rocket) are somewhat tippy, so you might want to look into a stand for a canister stove.
If you're trying to lighten up everything, it seems impractical to get a 2-man tent for solo use, as cutting out additional material and space is the best way to lose some weight. Have you looked at some of the roomier 1-mans? Or the 1.5-man tents? the MSR Hubba has a good vestibule, headroom, and doesn't feel very small.
The Copper Spurs are great tents.
Note the major issue with the Fly Creek (actually, BA's entire product line less the Emerald Mountain and Copper Spur - wet entrances. Unlike the HubbaHubba and derivatives, the Fly Creek tent extends well into the vestibule space, and if the fly is open, it will rain right into a good amount of the tent. A dry entrance would be a huge thing for me if planning to camp the coast. |
|
|
Calgary
71 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 4:10 PM
|
Wow, great responses so far.
Seboyle - I looked at the Thermarest Neo-Air yesterday, and to be quite honest, it just didn't grab me. I have to read more reviews, but the material seems really thin and it's got a metallicy noise inside. I have a cheaper current pad that i got on sale a few years ago, so should probably start by weighing that.
And glad to hear that the Pocket Rocket works for you! How many canisters did you need to go with it and how often did you cook on WCT? What I've always appreciated about my Trangia is being able to see exactly how much fuel I have left. How long would it take 1L of water to boil on the Pocket Rocket?
Interestingly enough, the backpack will likely be one item I won't go for lightweight. I have the North Face Crestone 60 which is a whopping 5 pounds, but I've found that it's so comfortable even when loaded up and bursting at the seams, that it would be hard to give that up. I also have a lighter Osprey 48, but find that it gets uncomfortable above 30-35 pounds. Will have to do more digging on that eventually...
Good points on the food too, Eryne! That's definitely a HUGE weight issue for me normally. For a single night I'll bring 'real' food as I just like it better.
For the tent, I am trying to balance the light weight for now with being able to accommodate another person :-). Right now I'm willing to trade a bit of extra weight for the extra space. I like having a 'roof' over my head and being fully enclosed - one reason why a bivy would probably be challenging for me. It's all about trade-offs :-). My spreadsheet's started, so I'll see which things may need more adjusting.
johngenx - If you have four WM bags, I think that's saying something! Looked at the Beothuk yesterday at MEC as well, but then drifted over towards the Summerlite for the extra 2 degrees and full zipper. I'm thinking with something like the Summerlite I could even pull off hut trips with my 24L pack as it seems to pack soooo nice and small. Have you had any issues with the fabric getting stuck in the zipper and tearing? And I agree, I do like the fluffy feel of down. As Steventy said, I've also managed to touch the bottom of the tent with my Hybrid -12C bag and, while manageable, I wouldn't want those conditions for a week. Part of my motivation behind going for a 2p tent just for myself is to decrease the chance of touching the walls. Putting a rain jacket over the foot is a great suggestion... will have to try that one. |
Edited by - BarbaraB on 06/15/2012 4:12 PM |
|
|
1107 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 4:19 PM
|
quote:
johngenx - If you have four WM bags, I think that's saying something!
He works part time at MEC so gets a discount.
I just finished the WCT 2 weeks ago. 5 days, 19 pounds total (with water and food). If you want to see my gear list, PM me. Warm, dry, and bug free.
Canister stove? No issue. Use the PR. Plenty of places to set the stove up on the sand behind driftwood or even on top of a flat rock.
Sleeping bag - you won't need anything that will push freezing so go with the lightest option you can find. 6 times doing the WCT and never used anything but down.
Sleeping pad - the NeoAir has some potential durability issues (I had two replaced through MEC after very little use - leaking) but it is very comfortable. The Prolites are good options, however. More durable and easier to blow up. You are only going to need something with an R-value of about 2.
Tent - Highly recommend something from Tarptent (www.tarptent.com). They are tents so don't let the name fool you. The MSR Hubba is so narrow as to be comical and it is very heavy for the space. Do you use trekking poles?
|
Edited by - FamilyGuy on 06/15/2012 4:25 PM |
|
|
Calgary
71 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 4:36 PM
|
Tarptent - never heard of them, but will look at those more. Do they all have to be ordered, or is there a place that sells them where one can actually look at some?
Would definitely be interested in seeing your gear list, so will see how to send a PM through this.
Maybe I should start working part time at MEC, seeing how I'm there every other day anyways and setting up gear and whatnot :-D. |
|
|
1107 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 4:42 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by BarbaraB
Tarptent - never heard of them, but will look at those more. Do they all have to be ordered, or is there a place that sells them where one can actually look at some?
Would definitely be interested in seeing your gear list, so will see how to send a PM through this.
Maybe I should start working part time at MEC, seeing how I'm there every other day anyways and setting up gear and whatnot :-D.
I have thought about working there part time as well.
Yes, only mail order but you can call and speak to Henry Shires in person so that you do not make the right choice. He has been making and selling since 1998 and has quite the following with long distance trekkers. Big in Europe as well with his 4 season models. I used the Notch recently and it was brilliant. 2 doors, 2 vestibules, double walled, pitch outer fly first (great in the rain), a ton of room, the inner can be detached from the outer fly for a modular approach, option of either a mesh inner tent or partial fabric inner. All for 26oz with pegs. |
|
|
north van, bc
Canada
949 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 5:54 PM
|
i think i was about 68-70lbs last year on the WCT ;)
down bags work fine for me. I've never goten one soaked. waterproof stuff sack + water proof bag liner + rain cover = everything in pack is dry. they will get wetter as the week goes on from sweat and the temp rating will reduce. a silk liner will help a bit for sweat. but if you are going mid summer temp shouldn't be much of an issue.
I used the pocket rocket. it doesn't like really high winds (blows out). but a log / rock wall can fix that.
I carried a hubba hubba |
|
|
1107 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 6:11 PM
|
quote:
i think i was about 68-70lbs last year on the WCT ;)
You are simply stronger than I am..... |
|
|
ALBANY, OR
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 6:26 PM
|
Barbara, i'm a tent person as well. I've done the bivy, done the tarp, done the hammock, but ultimately it boils down to being able to sit down at the end of the day inside my tent, free of bugs and dry. In particular, if it is raining frequently, the tent certainly helps in getting everything in/out of the pack while its dry. The challenge of course is figuring out your own way to back up the tent. I tried small volume tents but I need something I can sit up in and not have to slouch or crook my neck. I really notice the need for this type of shelter when I end up being out more than 2 or 3 nights. I've been using an REI tent that is under 4 lbs but its about 8 years old. Integral Designs, Tarptent, and others offer some great choices. i'm actually looking forward to upgrading my tent at some point because of the great selection and designs that are now available.
I also have been using the Prolite mattress with great success for the past 8 years. I found it a great relief to get the gear finely tuned and light. |
|
|
Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada
1332 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 6:42 PM
|
Regarding summer tents, I have the single Hubba and the double Hubba-Hubba and like them, except for the need for better top venting. The double doesn't weigh much more than the single and I have taken it on trips, when I'm sleeping in it alone, yet I know the weather will be poor. It's nice to have that extra dry room. I recently bought the MSR Gear Shed, which is an add on vestibule, that attaches to either Hubba tent. On a three day ski tour, camping on snow while it rained almost non-stop, the gear shed allowed 4 of us to have a comfortable place to gather for meals and for two of us to have lots of room to store our gear out of the weather. Some time this summer I'll try out the single Hubba with the gear shed. It'll be a palace for one person.
I used a Neo Air pad, on that rainy trip on snow, without a yellow foam underneath and was warm and comfortable. The Neo Air has a heat reflecting layer and is very light in weight and packs small. It comes with a very user friendly patch kit, for those that worry about getting a flat.
For stoves, I've become a fan of LP gas canister stoves, because of their light weight... both stove and fuel. I use a stove that is separate from the tank, that way when the fuel is low or cold, I can invert the tank and get a better burn. Also it's less tipsy than a stove that attaches to the top of the tank. As well, I can wrap w windscreen tightly around the stove & pot and not worry about the tank getting too hot and blowing up.
If I were doing a beach trip, where I could rely on having a fire to cook with, I would likely forgo any fuel type stove and rather pack a Vargo Titanium stove, that uses wood or duff. |
|
|
Squamish, BC
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 9:32 PM
|
Barbara, I only used 1 of the 227g (8oz) canisters. I was going to take another of the small 100g (3.5oz) ones as back up but I discovered the day before that it was virtually empty. I spent half a day walking round Port Alberni looking for another but couldn't find one and gave up. I was a bit concerned but it turned out to be absolutely fine, I had a quite abit of gas spare at the end of 6 days/5 nights.
I cooked breakfast and dinner. Cold lunch if I had one at all. Breakfast is usually hot muesli or instant oats for me so I only need to boil or warm a cup or so of water, that doesn't use much gas at all. I'll usually have a cup of tea as well. In the evening it's a another cup of tea plus another cup or two of water to add to whatever dried food I'm having.
As prother mentions above don't forget the campfire on a beach hike. I would be seriously tempted not to even bring a stove next time I do it. |
|
|
North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1655 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 10:04 PM
|
Consider the MSR Fast Stash if you want a light tent with tons of room. If you hike with poles then you don't need to bring any additional poles and it weighs only 1.3kg. If you are going solo you won't have a problem putting your backpack inside the tent. It can be a little finicky to set up but I've never failed to make it work.
I use the original NeoAir when it's warm out. I haven't been able to use it very much yet but it has been reliable so far. I'm not worried about the noise. If I'm moving around enough to make a lot of noise then I'm not sleeping anyway. I don't even know if it is that noisy once you blow it up.
The PocketRocket is great as well but it's so 2011. They now have a MicroRocket which will save you 12 entire grams. Of course, you could just eat half of one of your granola bars before you leave to make up the difference if you do end up going with the PocketRocket. Like any stove, the PocketRocket will perform best if the wind isn't blowing too hard. A simple winscreen (dry pack, log, rocks) can help in those cases but be sure to not heat up the canister too much with your windscreen. I'd take my PocketRocket on the WCT. You can save more weight by being precise about your fuel requirements.
My biggest weight savings have probably come from simply leaving stuff at home, not by buying the lightest version of everything. |
|
|
Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2012 : 10:08 PM
|
Yes, I used to work part time at MEC, and yes, three of my WM bags were bought at discount. But, I still think they're about the best made, and highly recommend them.
I store my bag in a dry bag while backpacking, and haven't had many problems with a wet bag.
As for tents, I don't know what the bug situation is like on the WCT. In the Rockies, I stopped using tarps some time ago thanks to bugs and rodents.
The TarpTents are highly thought of, and worth considering. I have no experience with them, but they have a loyal following. |
|
|
Vancouver, BC
Canada
41 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2012 : 11:51 AM
|
my opinions are my own - but here goes.
Look at a cottage tent like the six moon designs trekker (http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/tents/Trekker.html) very roomy and 24oz is LIGHT! but only an option is you already hike with poles.
I'm super happy with my jetboil sol ti - and depending on how long you are going to take on the WCT you could get away with 1 or 2 of the 4oz cans. That assumes a hot breakfast and hot dinner, but cold lunch. I get ~10L of boiling water (normally closer to 12, but budget for 10) out of a single 4oz can - which at .5L per meal is 20 meals, or 10 days. Make sure to factor in how many cups of tea you drink - my hiking partner has a horrible tea habbit which equates to far more fuel on longer treks.
Otherwise, the single most important thing for longer hikes, is safety pins. Always be changing your socks, washing them in a stream, and hanging them off your pack with your safety pins. This works much better in the sierra nevada vs the rain infused PNW, but fresh socks are happiness. |
Edited by - matthewf on 06/18/2012 11:54 AM |
|
|
Calgary, Alberta
Canada
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2012 : 12:55 PM
|
I went last year with two other ladies, we did the trip slow and steady over 7days our packs weight from 30 to 41 pounds mine being the heavier for the whole trip as one of the ladies suffered a low back injury.
Our packs are about 45litters two of us with Osprey one with a Greory...well worth EVERY CENT second best investment!!
We used a three man tent that was roughly 6pound split between two. Each of us carried meals that I pre-made,pre-planned and vaccum sealed with a hand pump(home hardware special). Each of our daily rations were packed per day and we did have food left over.
take lots of money..both stops for food are 20 plus dollars per plate and you will want more!!!!!!! sooooo good and sooooo worth it. Do not cheap out eating at these places.
Pack less cloths... but what we used was one pair of shorts, one long pant, one light rain coat, gatters, socks, one bra,three underware, two t-shirts one long sleeve shirt, hats a toque and a day hat) and long underware to sleep in or use if something goes wrong weather wise...anything more then that and you are way to clean!!
WE packed our sleeping cloths in its own stuff sack so those socks did stays clean and dry the entire trip.
flip flops end of the day well worth it....and our boots first most important investment were great (mine were zamberlands and the girls had northface I believe .
I should have taken extra camera batteries; you just can't take enough photos; also stock up on advil..plan to take it and a vitimain every day morning and night, even if your body is used to such shenanegan's.
We took both a stove and a jet boil I would do that again as well...nice to be making hot liquids or washing water in one pot and cooking a meal in the other.
Our biggest asset was planning every detail and knowing what we needed not what we wanted:-)
Enjoy its awesome!!!
        |
Edited by - TAlicia on 06/18/2012 1:04 PM |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Lightweight Gear for West Coast Trail
