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 Utah's canyon trekking,deck chair packing desert explorer who dreams of visiting Canada someday
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 4:57 PM
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A couple years back, I was hiking and found this barely sticking out of a sand dune. It was all encrusted with sand. I took it home and cleaned it out and used some steel wool on it.
Anyone know... what this is? is it a bayonet? not sure. Not a knife person. I really like it. It was really impacted with sand. Must've been in the sand for awhile. Probably a hunter or hiker lost it eons ago?
Thanks, Jerry |
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Happy go lucky, plaid wearin, postholin, safeway gaitor sportin, old-school film shootin, giver of many regards
Abbotsford, B.C.
Canada
13453 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 6:36 PM
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Looks like an oldie alright, that kind of style makes me think of the 1950's and older.
K |
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north van, bc
Canada
940 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 6:46 PM
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| I'm pretty sure it's a bayonet. that ring will slide over the barrel. but no idea what year or what it would fit on. |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7098 Posts |
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Utah's canyon trekking,deck chair packing desert explorer who dreams of visiting Canada someday
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 9:12 PM
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Thanks, Karvitk! I probably shouldn't have taken the steel wool to it.
Ohhhh I see how that would work, SMAC! cool.
Aces! I looked and found the remnants of the closed end number 4 just like that with the closed end and all behind a lot of scrapes on that piece you showed. But it was on the other side; the blade side. So, when I hold it blade up toward my face, it was on that piece you showed me but on that side. If I hold the knife blade facing floor, NO #'s on that piece. Maybe it is not a 4? But it looks machined. There are scrapes from the 4 to the end of the piece so all other numbers if there were any, are lost.
I will look at your link next. Great stuff. Thanks!!
Hmmmm now all I need is an old M1 rifle? hehe |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7098 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2012 : 10:48 PM
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I'm pretty confident it is an M4, incredible what kind of ww2 history may be behind it, it could of fought on the beaches of Omaha for all we know, very easily could of killed some Germans too. Very interesting find, you are lucky to have found it.
Something is strange however on the back end of the handle... To fit on a Carbine it would need a notch in the back.
Like this:
 
I'd be very interested in knowing myself what exactly it is and for what gun. I am no pro at all I just carry a BFK in the bush :).
Any chance you can post your photos and request identification here?
http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=44
Sign up and create a new thread under their "Edged Weapons Forum" category requesting proper ID, these guys know their military knives.
I'd like to know the answer myself, very interesting...
Maybe have to take a photo of what little lettering/number you do see. (Use macro mode) |
Edited by - AcesHigh on 05/31/2012 11:13 PM |
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Edmonton, AB
Canada
61 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2012 : 08:21 AM
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| Great find! Definitely a bayonet but that is as far as my knowledge goes. Please post an update here if you have it identified. |
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chilliwack, bc
Canada
79 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2012 : 09:04 AM
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| Definitely military - 1940's or 1950's vintage. My first thought was 'nice bayonet' but there is no notch in the butt end like Aces pointed out. |
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canine loving, machete-toting bushwhacking lake seeker, Indiana Jones hat-wearing off-road 4x4 guru
Surrey Hole, BC
Canada
6773 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 10:42 PM
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The pics are of my 1950 SKS Semi Auto, Likely a Chinese Military edition. Commonly imported.
Similar bayonete, but not quite
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canine loving, machete-toting bushwhacking lake seeker, Indiana Jones hat-wearing off-road 4x4 guru
Surrey Hole, BC
Canada
6773 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 11:11 PM
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RM and Aces, what the lenghts of the blade?
The SKS is considerable 12 inches in total with a 9.5 blade only. |
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canine loving, machete-toting bushwhacking lake seeker, Indiana Jones hat-wearing off-road 4x4 guru
Surrey Hole, BC
Canada
6773 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 11:13 PM
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I guess we can toss in some pitt gold dust and sasquatches and this thread is toasted.
Hopefully not, I would consider it an artifact find, with some interesting history. |
Edited by - Aqua Terra on 06/02/2012 11:22 PM |
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Richmond, BC
Canada
2440 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 08:47 AM
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To clear this up for you a bit rented Mule, direct your inquiry to the Ontario Knife company (OKC) who were and are the manufacutrers of military bayonets for both Canada and the US. They've been around for a loooong time. Send them the best closeups you can. They are most likely the manufacturers of your knife. Given the knife doesn't have the tongue/groove joint in the buttend, perhaps it may be older.
http://www.ontarioknife.com/
By any chance were you around a ground-zero observers location?    ? just kidding.
Aces, if the knife was making its rounds out on basic training exercises I don't think it would have made it to the front lines anywhere but I could stand to be corrected. It also may have belonged to a past/recent past US Cavalrymen.
Desert Sands can certainly conceal stories of the past. |
Edited by - pmicheals on 06/03/2012 09:42 AM |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7098 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 09:00 AM
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It seems to me almost like a cross between a bayonet and a trench knife or a pilots knife. Maybe someone changed the guard with the barrel hole in it? Possible. Those types of knives were the earlier type with the leather handle, it was later proven that the leather didn't hold up to the elements and was slippery, they changed to a rubber type handle later on. This could very well be a modified knife by the owner. Also note, no blood groove.
I'd like to see the results from a pro, like pmicheals suggests, RM please do so for us, enquiring minds want to know.
BTW AquaTerra, that is a cool gun you have there, and nice bayonet (BFB Big frickin Bayonet!!). |
Edited by - AcesHigh on 06/03/2012 09:04 AM |
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Richmond, BC
Canada
2440 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 09:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by AcesHigh
Excellent find! I am going to guess...
Model M4 Camillus for the M-1 Carbine Rifle, WW2-Korean War Era, guessing ww2 looks older.
Value $75-200$ $150 avg. with original sheath, unsure if original sheath, maybe.
Take a look at this area for any form of letters or numbers:
That would make for an excellent BFK
More info on ID'ing it:
http://www.quanonline.com/military/military_reference/fighting_knives/m4history.php
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http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=29979
Aces you are really close or perhaps correct. Although the sheath shown is not standard issue. The camillus is issued with an M4 case. It could very well be an WWII M4 "Imperial-M1 carbine" fighting knife/bayonet. The guard on the Imperial is engraved M4 with a flaming ball and didn't have the tongue/groove joint in the butt. To the best of my knowledge, both the camillus and Imperial used the same case . The KaBar was a competing bayonet in it's class. Both MFGs would engrave USMC on the blade if they were designated for the Marine Corp.
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Edited by - pmicheals on 06/03/2012 09:25 AM |
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Richmond, BC
Canada
2440 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 09:41 AM
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This is a WWII US M4 Imperial M1 Carbine Fighting Knife/bayonet with M4 case. It is similar to the camillus but the blade version is bayonet and not bowie as like the camillus
compare it to RMs
The only thing I'm not sure of although it could be a photo issue is the difference in the girth around the handles. RMs appears straighter.
Rented Mule...Thx for sharing |
Edited by - pmicheals on 06/03/2012 09:59 AM |
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Richmond, BC
Canada
2440 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 09:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Aqua Terra
The pics are of my 1950 SKS Semi Auto, Likely a Chinese Military edition. Commonly imported.
Similar bayonete, but not quite
Nice |
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Utah's canyon trekking,deck chair packing desert explorer who dreams of visiting Canada someday
3988 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 9:30 PM
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Will go to the sites for ID listed and get my son over with his macro canon camera and get some really good shots and measurements. I am really curious, too. I will keep it either way. Good find. You know what I seriously thought it was? A butcher shop knife and the ring was for hanging up on a post when not in use....he he never imagined it was military issue. cool. The sheath looks like home made? There are a lot of deer in the area it was found and a great place to look for antler drops. My thought is it was someone's military knife that got lost while hunting deer. Odd that it was in the sheath and packed with sand. Maybe it was in someones pack and fell out? it is really slippery in that sheath. I tried to wear it on a hike and when I bent over or leaned back, it would slide right out. I'll post onto those sites tomorrow. Just hat gallbladder surgery and the gas bubble in my right shoulder is killing me. Good night. cheers and thanks again.
jerry
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canine loving, machete-toting bushwhacking lake seeker, Indiana Jones hat-wearing off-road 4x4 guru
Surrey Hole, BC
Canada
6773 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 9:49 PM
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RM
Heal up quickly eh?
pmicheals
Put 80 rounds through it on Sunday, smooth as warm butter, quick as my modern firearms.
Old? yes, outdated? not really 
Pullin the trigger is easy, using the bayonet would seem rather rough and brutal by todays western standards. |
Edited by - Aqua Terra on 06/04/2012 9:58 PM |
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350 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2012 : 06:58 AM
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| Sorta looks like what I carry in my sack. A sturdy double bladed bayonet is what I use. |
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Utah's canyon trekking,deck chair packing desert explorer who dreams of visiting Canada someday
3988 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2012 : 10:24 AM
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bump.
Hi, all. Had the knife appraised by a professional. I dropped the knife off at a pawn shop for two weeks and they said they had a guy who was really good at this stuff and he was there in person when I picked it up and wanted no money for the appraisal. It was a thrill for him to do what he loved doing. I gave him an Applebees gift card for his trouble.
It is a WW II Camillus M-4 Bayonet for the M-1 Carbine. the Bayonet Mechanism has been replaced with a standard Pommel. Also, the crossguard has been filed to remove the model number and Manufacturers information. Only the "4" remains intact on the guard. Also, the flaming bomb on the other side of the guard has been filed off. Where I found it and my thoughts were also his; that a fellow brought it back from WWII and made it into a hunting knife. The sheath is after market and not govt issue. It was made from a bayonet into a trench knife or hunting knife.
thanks again, everyone for your comments. I will keep it forever. A treasure found in the desert chaparral whilst hiking. It is only worth 25-40 dollars in its altered state. But, it is way cool to me. Never know what we'll find out there. cheers! jerry |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7098 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2012 : 1:02 PM
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Awesome, thanks for the update, I figured it was a cross with a trench knife carrying characteristics of both. Definately a nice find, just think, if only you knew where that knife had been (or maybe who it's been in lol), if you could travel wherever that knife had been through ww2, it could of been to some amazing places in some incredible battles.
[edit]I think it qualifies as a BFK, no doubt. |
Edited by - AcesHigh on 07/27/2012 2:10 PM |
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found crusty knife need ID? Old? ACES?
