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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3509 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 7:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hafilax
...CT is incredibly tame by Internet standards. It amazes me what people get worked up about here...
Compared to most other forums I frequent, CT is tame. TGR is an example of pretty loose moderation and it works. But, you do have to be careful about porn, etc. CT's owners won't ever go that way, and I get it. SuperTopo is another "wild west" forum that works well. |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
1297 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 8:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hafilax
CT is incredibly tame by Internet standards. It amazes me what people get worked up about here.
That's its appeal. CT is nice. Nothing wrong with that.
It's bizarre to cry censorship when some people want to keep it nice. Like some kid who drops f-bombs somewhere and then whines about 'censorship!' when they're kicked out.
TGR censors too. But since it's also well-run, it's infrequent.
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258 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 8:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hafilax
I love how people are afraid to admit that they're for censorship. The forum rules explicitly state that the forum imposes censorship. Try starting a thread about samsquanches. Quit dancing around and just admit it.
I don't mind saying outright that I'm okay with some censorship. With some of the arguments that get going on here, I'm inclined to say that more people would self-censor if it were happening face to face. If you get a big enough group of people together on the internet, a few are going to take advantage of the fact that there are no real repercussions for saying whatever they want. If it takes some moderators to counteract that, okay.
The recent packing heat on the trail thread is a pretty good example. It was:
a) Hilarious. Seriously. I was thoroughly entertained.
b) Not something I'd want myself, my family, or friends publicly associated with in any way.
Which is too bad, because there are a lot of places I can find funny/dumb comments, but less that discuss relevant, regional outdoor info.
quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
If you make me a mod, I'd have to ban myself first. This would interfere with my mod duties...
Says the guy who always seems to keep arguments respectful...  |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1461 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 8:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tu
quote:
Originally posted by hafilax
CT is incredibly tame by Internet standards. It amazes me what people get worked up about here.
That's its appeal. CT is nice.
... to you.
I guess I already feel like the moderation is excessive here so it surprises me that people would want more. I don't mean that it should be as abrasive as TGR or even RC.com.
IMO, the thing that has kept CT so civil is that people interact face to face quite frequently. As the membership grows this happens less and less. As a result people don't really get the nuances of the way people represent themselves in text. |
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bandana wearin', pole huckin', view lovin', dog herdin', 4x4 navigatin', lake huntin', butt-slidin' bridge crosser, who enjoys postholing with an overnighter pack
Surrey, BC
Canada
4650 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 8:59 PM
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I think you hit the nail on the head Geoff. Too much Net' talkin these days and not enough face to face anymore... CT used to be pretty interactive in that many met on hikes and became friends and/or frequent or infrequent hiking partners. I've met the best people since I've been in BC from CT (including you  ).
I'm with TU also, I don't care if CT is way tamer than other Boards, it was tamer than it is now and it was nice. People weren't afraid to post or express their opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by hafilax
quote:
Originally posted by tu
quote:
Originally posted by hafilax
CT is incredibly tame by Internet standards. It amazes me what people get worked up about here.
That's its appeal. CT is nice.
... to you.
I guess I already feel like the moderation is excessive here so it surprises me that people would want more. I don't mean that it should be as abrasive as TGR or even RC.com.
IMO, the thing that has kept CT so civil is that people interact face to face quite frequently. As the membership grows this happens less and less. As a result people don't really get the nuances of the way people represent themselves in text.
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
1297 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 9:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Spunky
I don't care if CT is way tamer than other Boards, it was tamer than it is now and it was nice. People weren't afraid to post or express their opinion.
+1
hafilax is correct also - I'm not necessarily looking for niceness, but for a civil society. |
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Penhold, Alberta
Canada
2014 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 9:24 PM
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We should never have to worry about what you say here on CT!
Not everyone is going to agree and that is life, if the fact that someone might not like your views bothers you, then you might need to grow a few scones and stand your ground for your beliefs.
I'm in agreement with Rachelo and Hafilax on the issue of excessive babysitting.. most folks here don't need to have their butts powdered that often and CT is quite civil in comparison to alot of other forums out there. |
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 9:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by darrenbell
We should never have to worry about what you say here on CT!
Not everyone is going to agree and that is life, if the fact that someone might not like your views bothers you, then you might need to grow a few scones and stand your ground for your beliefs.
I'm in agreement with Rachelo and Hafilax on the issue of excessive babysitting.. most folks here don't need to have their butts powdered that often and CT is quite civil in comparison to alot of other forums out there.
I agree with the posters mentioned. Ct should do some hard thinking about what this forum is about, create minimal rules, and then follow them. Profanity should certainly be eliminated, and so should personal attacks.
A lot of posters here have ax's to grind( we're even seeing it acted out in this thread of all places!)... Nonsense posts with personal jibes and no content are the real noise... That includes, as rachelo noted: what a stupid thread/you guys are stupid/stop talking about this... Whiny posts. Often these posts are simply emotional outbursts towards opposing opinions or again.... Personal grudges .
Ps. I hope cambiums issues have Been answered. It's troubling to hear he's been censored already.
He often makes no sense, but I haven't noticed him being profane, or attacking others (except when severely provoked). |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7100 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 10:34 PM
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There is a lot more than just breaking up arguements or halting people from being overly rude.
What is key is good content. Keeping the main threads related to the hiking website is key. For example without any Authority or Moderators this sites database would be packed with non relevant hiking threads. Do we realy want them filling the mainpage or active topics of the website? Any newcomer that shows up on the mainpage that doesnt find hiking related topics will begin the exact same cycle. Therefore moderation is needed on content.
For example, there has been a paticular someone in here that's been posting just about anything he can get his hands on from the internet into the CT database since he signed up. Much of which is not related to any hikes but does bring up discussion that carrys on and on. The discussions become heated, and takes away from the entire thoughts or discussions of hiking. My first thoughts were not good and never have been about it. It should of been stomped out long ago, so he wouldn't be wondering why now all of a sudden his posts are being deleted, and maybe he would have shaped up long ago. Wakeup call. Things seem to be going a bit better lately but I am suspecting it is because a moderator has finally said something to that person.
Stopping a thread from the get go that could cause havoc is a good thing. For example this recent thread about another website slandering CT is a bad thing. What will happen next is when someone on that website sees the recent CT thread about it, it will re-ignite a flame war between websites, they will trash talk back and forth even more. One could easily just laugh it off, but it isn't good if you ask me, it should actually be deleted. This is just a simple example of what I am talking about when it comes to content.
Of course we all have different opinions, I've been around many forums online for a number of years and I don't find CT all that bad for moderation at all. Spam is literally non-existant. What I don't like to see as well is when a nice person posts an interesting thread (outdoor related) and two people bicker back and forth for several pages, over nothing to do with the original post, when meenwhile one post of "We both agree to disagree" would of stopped the ongoing battle.
Keeping the topics hiking related is a good thing, stomping out flame wars is a good thing, and suspending anyone that is by far overly abusive is a good thing too. I am happy with the way things are going now, I can also see this as being a lot of work for just one or two people to moderate. I am overall happy with Jims decision to get a couple more Mods involved. Maybe it will make people think twice about what they post.
I welcome newcomers to the site and look forward to them posting their reports, photos (especially) and hiking related information.
And this is all just my opinion... |
Edited by - AcesHigh on 05/11/2012 10:38 PM |
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 03:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by AcesHigh
There is a lot more than just breaking up arguements or halting people from being overly rude.
What is key is good content. Keeping the main threads related to the hiking website is key. For example without any Authority or Moderators this sites database would be packed with non relevant hiking threads. Do we realy want them filling the mainpage or active topics of the website? Any newcomer that shows up on the mainpage that doesnt find hiking related topics will begin the exact same cycle. Therefore moderation is needed on content.
For example, there has been a paticular someone in here that's been posting just about anything he can get his hands on from the internet into the CT database since he signed up. Much of which is not related to any hikes but does bring up discussion that carrys on and on. The discussions become heated, and takes away from the entire thoughts or discussions of hiking. My first thoughts were not good and never have been about it. It should of been stomped out long ago, so he wouldn't be wondering why now all of a sudden his posts are being deleted, and maybe he would have shaped up long ago. Wakeup call. Things seem to be going a bit better lately but I am suspecting it is because a moderator has finally said something to that person.
Look, stop the silly talk. The powers that be, and the regulars here, are not that stupid. We all know who you're talking about, and we all know that the "heat" often comes FROM YOU, raging about how the thread is inappropriate. In some cases, the discussion (which others value), simply carries on around you. I'm sure you noticed when I called you on a recent case in which you and another poster (who you frequently attempt to consort with), BERATED a poster for an inappropriate thread....even as you PRAISED your friend as he started a very similar thread only a short time later! You're histrionic when it comes to that poster.
Aside from your personal grudge, I would urge ALL CAUTION in deciding on what thread has "value" and is about "hiking", when indeed, many topics can be tangentially related, and of interest to some. If a number of posters began flooding the board with completely unrelated topics, such that the volume became onerous, then indeed, action would be needed. Obviously that's FAR from the case on CT!!! Should a poster post threads you think are not of value, at this point, it is VERY easy to simply not participate in the thread. If all others think the thread has no value, it will disappear quickly.
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Hope, BC
Canada
7100 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 06:30 AM
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| Wow, worked up a little Dcipher? You fall into one of those categories I was discussing, but I'm not here to argue with anyone. In fact I would love to see you post a report, I've never seen one of yours before. |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
1297 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 07:58 AM
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^ And another forum thread gets mixed down to doo doo.
Thanks for re-emphasizing the original poster's point. |
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Penhold, Alberta
Canada
2014 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 08:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tu
^ And another forum thread gets mixed down to doo doo.
Thanks for re-emphasizing the original poster's point.
This is very civil so far, maybe you need to put on those big girl panties? Are you against discussion and debate in it's entirety? |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
1297 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 12:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by darrenbell
This is very civil so far, maybe you need to put on those big girl panties? Are you against discussion and debate in it's entirety?
You're funny |
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Penhold, Alberta
Canada
2014 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 12:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tu
quote:
Originally posted by darrenbell
This is very civil so far, maybe you need to put on those big girl panties? Are you against discussion and debate in it's entirety?
You're funny
See Ted, its all good! |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3796 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 3:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by DCIPHER
quote:
Originally posted by darrenbell
We should never have to worry about what you say here on CT!
Not everyone is going to agree and that is life, if the fact that someone might not like your views bothers you, then you might need to grow a few scones and stand your ground for your beliefs.
I'm in agreement with Rachelo and Hafilax on the issue of excessive babysitting.. most folks here don't need to have their butts powdered that often and CT is quite civil in comparison to alot of other forums out there.
I agree with the posters mentioned. Ct should do some hard thinking about what this forum is about, create minimal rules, and then follow them. Profanity should certainly be eliminated, and so should personal attacks.
A lot of posters here have ax's to grind( we're even seeing it acted out in this thread of all places!)... Nonsense posts with personal jibes and no content are the real noise... That includes, as rachelo noted: what a stupid thread/you guys are stupid/stop talking about this... Whiny posts. Often these posts are simply emotional outbursts towards opposing opinions or again.... Personal grudges .
Ps. I hope cambiums issues have Been answered. It's troubling to hear he's been censored already.
He often makes no sense, but I haven't noticed him being profane, or attacking others (except when severely provoked).
But that's the whole thing - people have different standards. While I avoid profanity, I have no issue with it, and think it's ridiculous when people both call each other names but only one is considered a problem because it's on the magic list of *bad* nonsense words. I don't see any problem with the odd word, and I think that people who judge a post just on the use of certain words are missing on the comprehension.
On the other hand, cambium* drives me nuts because he's nonsensical and irrelevant. I don't mind when someone says something against me in a thread, but I do mind when a thread is lost by trying to understand what his ramblings have to do with the point at hand. You consider profanity to be the bad stuff that needs to go. I consider inanity to be a far worse crime, but I don't need someone else to step in and make things all better because of what *I* want.
I don't suggest any of it be removed. My solution is to use the handy ignore feature. I've never ignored someone for language or opinions, but I got tired of the random crap, so removed his posts from my sight (and haven't missed anything in a discussion yet...). when I see he has started a thread, I generally ignore it, because I know it's not something I'm going to care to read. I thus solve my own problems instead of demanding that he be removed from the site.
those with issues about language or whatever else should do the same - if there is a poster whose language you don't like, 'ignore' him. if there is a thread full of people whining or complaining, ignore it and move on.
As I said at the beginning - there's no need to demand the powers that be make the bad things go away when you can simply self-police by choosing what to read.
*I see no reason to be evasive. I have said it before, and use the third person because I am responding to DCIPHER, and not speaking to cambium. If others don't care for what I have to say, or find me excessively harsh, I suggest they too use the handy feature to ignore me. |
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1073 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 5:44 PM
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Well said Rachel. From reading this thread and seeing what goes on on this board, I think people are talking about two different things. Some people, like yourself, are using the word 'moderation' to describe it's intended function, that is, to keep obvious spam and ads off the site, to keep it clean enough for family reading, to prohibit banned topics, and to lock or toss obviously derailed threads that no longer serve any purpose.
It's obvious, however, that there are certainly some people using 'moderation' as a euphemism for 'tell me I'm right' or 'my values are better than your values'. If your ego isn't involved and you aren't sensitive to easy offense, the ignore feature, as well as your own will power, should be enough to keep you 'safe'. If you have thin skin and a prudish worldview, the internet probably isn't the best place to interact with other people. For the serious offences, moderation is already working on this site, I wouldn't change a thing. |
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2012 : 04:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachelo
quote:
Originally posted by DCIPHER
quote:
Originally posted by darrenbell
We should never have to worry about what you say here on CT!
Not everyone is going to agree and that is life, if the fact that someone might not like your views bothers you, then you might need to grow a few scones and stand your ground for your beliefs.
I'm in agreement with Rachelo and Hafilax on the issue of excessive babysitting.. most folks here don't need to have their butts powdered that often and CT is quite civil in comparison to alot of other forums out there.
I agree with the posters mentioned. Ct should do some hard thinking about what this forum is about, create minimal rules, and then follow them. Profanity should certainly be eliminated, and so should personal attacks.
A lot of posters here have ax's to grind( we're even seeing it acted out in this thread of all places!)... Nonsense posts with personal jibes and no content are the real noise... That includes, as rachelo noted: what a stupid thread/you guys are stupid/stop talking about this... Whiny posts. Often these posts are simply emotional outbursts towards opposing opinions or again.... Personal grudges .
Ps. I hope cambiums issues have Been answered. It's troubling to hear he's been censored already.
He often makes no sense, but I haven't noticed him being profane, or attacking others (except when severely provoked).
But that's the whole thing - people have different standards. While I avoid profanity, I have no issue with it, and think it's ridiculous when people both call each other names but only one is considered a problem because it's on the magic list of *bad* nonsense words. I don't see any problem with the odd word, and I think that people who judge a post just on the use of certain words are missing on the comprehension.
Oh well that is certainly true. Different standards, or rather, subjectivity, is why I think moderation must be minimal. As to profanity...well it's just a bottom-line standard I think is very reasonable, in that, while I know some people have trouble keeping their spoken language clean, it's hard to believe anyone would not be able to avoid it in writing! LOL. Plus they are nearly always extraneous.... It's true, there is nothing magical about the word itself which imbues it with offense, but of course, we, as a society, have put it on the list, and that's the whole point: they are considered offensive, and thus, (when written) are often meant to be offensive (even if less and less so as we grow accustomed to it), or attacking, shocking, or even humorous, because of that! So I'd say, why not agree, as in formal writing, to keep it clean. On the other hand, if if was decided that profanity is alright, I wouldn't be particularly bothered by it.
However, I agree, in terms of actual sentiment, there isn't much of a difference between: "you are a #*(!)**!((!_!_!" and "you are a stupid waste of skin", or "shut up and stop posting here!" Certainly I'd give assign them the same value and respect!
quote:
Originally posted by Rachelo
On the other hand, cambium* drives me nuts because he's nonsensical and irrelevant. I don't mind when someone says something against me in a thread, but I do mind when a thread is lost by trying to understand what his ramblings have to do with the point at hand. You consider profanity to be the bad stuff that needs to go. I consider inanity to be a far worse crime, but I don't need someone else to step in and make things all better because of what *I* want.
I don't suggest any of it be removed. My solution is to use the handy ignore feature. I've never ignored someone for language or opinions, but I got tired of the random crap, so removed his posts from my sight (and haven't missed anything in a discussion yet...). when I see he has started a thread, I generally ignore it, because I know it's not something I'm going to care to read. I thus solve my own problems instead of demanding that he be removed from the site.
Yes, you've mentioned this in other threads, and I think it's quite commendable that you simply did this. As to Cambium....well yes, I find his posts a mixed bag to say the least...some have good points, some are tangential, often they are non sequitur, a few appear to be produced by a random phrase generator. Yet, if he thinks they are of value, and relevant...again...judgment call. I feel free to call him on it (the content), or ignore it. Many of his detractors, I'm sure you've noticed, simply go ad hominem on him, without addressing content at ALL! They don't notice the irony, that not only are they polluting the thread far more than Cambium did (since, presumably Cambium was TRYING to put content in), but also that a couple of them are not exactly known for well researched, thoughtful, on-topic posts!
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Edited by - DCIPHER on 05/13/2012 04:25 AM |
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2012 : 04:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kid Charlemagne
Well said Rachel. From reading this thread and seeing what goes on on this board, I think people are talking about two different things. Some people, like yourself, are using the word 'moderation' to describe it's intended function, that is, to keep obvious spam and ads off the site, to keep it clean enough for family reading, to prohibit banned topics, and to lock or toss obviously derailed threads that no longer serve any purpose.
It's obvious, however, that there are certainly some people using 'moderation' as a euphemism for 'tell me I'm right' or 'my values are better than your values'. If your ego isn't involved and you aren't sensitive to easy offense, the ignore feature, as well as your own will power, should be enough to keep you 'safe'. If you have thin skin and a prudish worldview, the internet probably isn't the best place to interact with other people. For the serious offences, moderation is already working on this site, I wouldn't change a thing.
fd
Exactly. If you start trying to moderate content at that level...well...it just becomes a reflection of the personal opinions (with whatever leeway they decide to give that day) of the mods. Even with the MINIMAL moderation you describe (which I largely agree with), the true test of any mod will be: am I applying these very basic, relatively rarely relevant(on this board) moderation guidelines in a completely unbiased manner?
Even that, will not be easy, since one must rise above their own personal beliefs, and their own personal feelings, so as not to favor anyone. Very deliberate consideration must go into every move made!
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 Trail cuttin, GPS packin bushwhacker, wiki hike compilin, who is now Hope-less
2543 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2012 : 09:54 AM
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The only approach I know of for cultivating large online communities is to design the entire experience in a way that self-moderates.
It's subtle. Take for example, the "post counter" on the side - it almost encourages people to add massive numbers of useless posts. Another example are the trip reports - the replies and comments are shown with the same emphasis and focus as the actual trip report. |
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Let's vote in a few moderators?
