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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 2:25 PM
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We've been working on reducing our pack weight for our upcoming attempt on Mt. Columbia. The object is to cut weight, but not dramatically reduce our ability to stay on the icefields.
Example? Last year, the temperature plummeted and most teams (including ours, but we lasted one day longer than most...) had to bail. Two of us were ready for that kind of cold, but two were not. Other teams had people trying to extend lightweight summer bags, and they left almost right away.
So, gear like my big parka and -32C bag is on the "mandatory" list, but we've been looking for other ways to really shave some kilos. In 2009, our packs were heavy with big meals, heavy pots, and XGK stoves. We had a 5kg tent for three people.
In 2011, we switched to Reactor stoves, freeze-dried food (yuck, but no dirty pots and very light) and to lighter tents.
For 2012, we're switching to UL single wall mountaineering tents, lighter sleeping pads (but still warm, the newest ThermaRest winter-capable units), less fuel (we carried way too much last year) and other little things.
The result?
My pack, including the Puma sleeping bag and big OR Down Parka, weighs 21 pounds without fuel or food. My goal was 20 lbs, and I'm close! Fuel and food weighs in at another 10lbs or so, and add a liter of drink on the go, and I should be <35lbs all in.
What a change from 2009, where we averaged about 55lbs per person!! |
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Kootenay Bud
2695 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 3:22 PM
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Take a dump before you leave - you'll be good to go.
Seriously, if success comes down to one pound, you have bigger problems.
I never weigh my pack. I take what I need and nothing else. Simple. Effective. Saves time fussing about a few grams here and there. |
Edited by - sandy on 04/08/2012 3:23 PM |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 4:44 PM
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| It's part of the fun for me to work on what to take and trying lighter alternatives. |
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Van, BC
Canada
2789 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 4:46 PM
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Can you swap a lighter heavyweight parka? Are you using a stuff sack to compress it (go without or switch to one of the ultralight ones?).
-Ryan
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 5:14 PM
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HAHA, if you want to make the symbolic goal, you could start going to extremes like the light hikers and probably get a pound! Cut out parts of your map, cut toothbrush down to a stub, cut shoelaces, cut out clothing tags....cut your hair....let's be honest, do you really use your pinky finger much?
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Edited by - DCIPHER on 04/08/2012 5:18 PM |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 5:25 PM
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| My new 800 fill power OR down parka is 300g lighter than my DAS Parka and pretty warm. I won't go with anything less warm. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1606 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 5:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by DCIPHER
HAHA, if you want to make the symbolic goal, you could start going to extremes like the light hikers and probably get a pound! Cut out parts of your map, cut toothbrush down to a stub, cut shoelaces, cut out clothing tags....cut your hair....let's be honest, do you really use your pinky finger much?
Why bother bringing a toothbrush?
If I want to go lightweight on a single night trip I leave the stove, fuel and pot at home and bring other food. I also skip on brushing my teeth for a single night.
Those tactics make a lot less sense if you are traveling in a group or going multiple nights. In those cases, the extra weight of the stove/fuel/pot will be offset by the significantly lighter freeze dried food.
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1606 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 6:01 PM
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That is impressive. I can imagine it will be hard to get any lighter.
Maybe it's time to start tying helium balloons to your backpack? |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1461 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 6:18 PM
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| That sounds really expensive. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 6:28 PM
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Honestly, we're running out of ways we can think of, even if we had an unlimited budget, to save more weight. Of course on this trip we can't do things like leave the stove behind, so there are certain limitations given the objective and terrain.
Some of our precious comfort is being sacrificed, but not terribly so. The BD single wall tent is not roomy, but does fit two full sized pads. We had thought about digging caves and leaving the tents behind, but the labour to dig offsets some of the weight savings and I find tents preferable to the wet of the cave. They are quiet though!
What we're trying to accomplish through lighter packs is more distance on day one, and more energy in reserve for climbing, etc. |
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Van, BC
Canada
2789 Posts |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 7:06 PM
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| Not even close. That pack can't carry 30lbs and has no real belt. It's also too small. My 55L pack only weighs 1700g and can carry a real load for a full day. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1461 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 8:19 PM
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| Can you get away with using a Megamid? With the bathtub floor, I think tips the scales at around 4 pounds or less for a 4 person tent. A lot of ski tourers swear by them for use in sheltered areas where you don't need the wind robustness. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 8:54 PM
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The middle of the Columbia Icefields is slightly not-sheltered.
I have used it before, and my opinion is that they're seriously damp inside. The material is non-breathable. Some people swear by them (as you noted) but as light as it is, I just don't like them very much. We have relegated it to a day-use shelter for long day tours.
I have had my single-wall tent out a few times this winter, and I'm very pleased about the condensation control. I was afraid it would be terrible compared to my double-wall tents, but the fabric works. That said, it's not quite as warm as the double-wall tents, especially in high winds.
We're sitting on the fence about bringing the vestibule. It adds space and allows better venting, but does take pack space. However, at 250g per person (500g total with pole, guy and bull-dog) it's not a lot of extra weight for some real utility. I haven't used it on my previous trips.
Major changes from 2009/2011:
Tents. From 1700g/pp to 750g/pp
Sleeping bag: 2.2kg for my -20C Swan to 1.7kg for my -32C Puma (had it in 2011, loved it)
Crampons: From 1150g to 600g for steel to aluminum crampons
Sleeping pad: 950g Exped to 540g ThermaRest NeoAir All-Season. I've tried the NeoAir this winter, and can't believe how warm it is for the weight.
Food: In 2009, we took luxury food including veggies and cubed chicken, etc. It also took a LOT of fuel for cooking and required a couple pots. In 2011 we switched to pre-packaged freeze-dried food and only boiling water. Saved fuel and changed to the lighter Reactor stoves from XGK.
Thanks to not having to sit outside and run the stove for hours on end cooking and melting snow, I am able to trim some layers. I didn't take insulated pants in 2011, and didn't miss them. I also have a soft-shell with a light fleece lining, and dropped my fleece layer.
Little things can add up if you do enough of them. 100g saved by going from my 300cm to 230cm probe. 200g saved by using my Corsa Nanotech axe instead of the Grivel. 300g saved by subbing out my beefy Pro-Shell jacket for the lighter Pertex garment. 200g saved by dropping the closed-cell foam pad. (I used the ThermaRest all winter without it, and have been pleased) 120g saved switching to BD Spot headlamp from Myo-Belt. 300g saved by switching parkas. |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
331 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 10:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sandy
Take a dump before you leave - you'll be good to go.
Seriously, if success comes down to one pound, you have bigger problems.
I never weigh my pack. I take what I need and nothing else. Simple. Effective. Saves time fussing about a few grams here and there.
I'll +1 this post. If you want to get up Mount Columbia you need to train more for it. The standard one ski mountaineering trip a year philosophy of the GMMC wont cut it for Columbia. What other ski mountaineering trips have you done this season to prepare for Columbia and how many are you planning to do before Columbia? |
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Calgary, Alberta
Andorra
3787 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 10:19 PM
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It certainly didn't come across to me like the assumption was that training and fitness didn't matter or could be offset by light packs.
Not everyone cares about pack weight, but for some gear junkies it's interesting and enjoyable to challenge yourself to get down to the best function for the pound.
It doesn't seem necessary to insult someone for caring about an area that doesn't engage you...
That's impressive! |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 10:56 PM
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I have been out at least a dozen times, including doing the Wapta and multiple overnight ski touring/mountaineering camping trips and some 30+km days. I'm in shape and can ski all day with a big pack on including tons of elevation.
I don't need to train more. I train like a motherfucker when stuck in the city and I spend lots of time in the mountains.
I don't want to carry more than I have to, and I enjoy the cerebral exercise of trying to minimize my gear and maximize efficiency. Carrying extra weight for the hell of it? Why? Not my thing.
You assume that because I want to cut weight is because I'm weak. I'm not. Fitness is but one skill to put to use in the mountains, and I've got that one covered, and much more. On those few occasions we were out, I never failed to keep up with you and I'm 25 years your senior. I'm as fit as then, if not more.
As an aside, I don't blindly plod along in someone else's skin/foot track and then declare myself an expert mountaineer. Near fatal epics? None. I'll stop there, as I don't like running down my partners in public. In 2011, equipment failure for two of our party (not me...) cratered our attempt. That's life. We went home, lived to tell about it, and I'm fine with that. Ambition never takes precedence over my friendships and desire to get everyone home safely. I don't judge success by numbers of peaks or the names of the peaks, but by the events that took place getting to and from the summit. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 11:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sandy
Seriously, if success comes down to one pound, you have bigger problems.
Don't recall where I said that one pound is the difference between success and failure. Just an arbitrary goal I set and wanted to see if I could reach. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1606 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2012 : 11:09 PM
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Can't a gearwhore try to save a few extra grams without being persecuted?
What are you bringing for electronics? I assume you are using lithium batteries?
My beacon says that it requires alkaline batteries which is annoying. |
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Penhold, Alberta
Canada
2009 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 05:46 AM
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| Hey John, looks like you've cut as much as you can but if the weather forecast looks good maybe be preparred to take a lighter sl. bag. You'll have your parka and warm clothes to back it up.Have a safe and fun trip. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 06:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steventy
What are you bringing for electronics? I assume you are using lithium batteries?
My beacon says that it requires alkaline batteries which is annoying.
Headlamp, GPS and camera. All on lithium batteries. They're lighter, bonus, but work better in the cold and last longer.
Not long ago a lot of gear couldn't use lithium batteries, but more can now. My GPS has a setting for when you install them.
But, as to beacons, here is a good explanation...
http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/lithium-batteries-and-avalanche-beacons/ |
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One pound to go!!
