| Author |
Topic |
Kimberley, BC
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 6:32 PM
|
The management plan for the Spearhead Range (Whistler backcountry) is getting updated. A public input period is now open. I encourage everyone to complete the survey available from the link below.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/planning/mgmtplns/garibaldi/garibaldi_mp.html
My 2 cents is that a strategy needs to be put in place to address the human waste that is piling up on the glaciers of the Spearhead traverse. It's getting pretty nasty out there! |
|
North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1603 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 6:52 PM
|
Some hot potatoes in this one including the idea of developing mountain biking trails in the Spearhead area and possibly phasing out heli-skiing.
Does anyone have more info on this one:
"Direction regarding a winter safety route to the Cheakamus Lake parking lot."
Do they mean putting in orange poles each winter from Singing Pass all the way down to Cheakamus Lake parking lot?
|
|
|
Vancouver, BC
Canada
2659 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 7:46 PM
|
I've given it a brief read. I'm going to hold off on submitting my own comments until I get more information on what some of it means. If anyone from FMCBC has info on parts to focus on to be for/against, I'd be interested in hearing it.
I know that some of my feedback for the resource roads plan may not have been in alignment because I didn't understand what the implications were for motorized access, as an example. |
|
|
Vancouver, BC
Canada
1321 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 7:56 PM
|
The FMCBC hasn't formed an official response yet... but our general thoughts on some of these issues have been:
-Spearhead Huts need to be done "right"
-Heli-skiing is inconsistent with the park
-A bridge should be constructed over Fitzsimmons Creek at the IPP intake for Singing Pass trail access, either a vehicle bridge so you can drive to the old parking lot, or a footbridge with parking at the intake. Needs cooperation from various stakeholders to allow driving to there.
I personally haven't given much thought to the mountain biking issue yet. Would be happy to hear some opinions from here. When we come up with our response we can distribute it. |
|
|
Vancouver
1809 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 8:07 PM
|
Thanks, matosan for the post and the link.
Here's my answers to the survey:
2 (a) What types of recreational activities do you think should be permitted in the study area? Why?
Hiking, backcountry skiing, snowshoeing. These activities best support the reason for the park's existence, have minimal environmental impact, and maximize health benefits to participants.
2 (b) What types of recreational activities do you think should not be permitted? Why?
All activities directly motorized such as helicopter hiking, skiing, sightseeing; snowmobiling, and motorcycling. Also, activities directly supported by machinery, such as downhill mountain biking and backcountry skiers using chairlifts.
These activities inevitably damage park values, extirpate uses more aligned with park values, create pressure for further development, and fall short in health benefits.
3 (a) What do you most value about Garibaldi Park?
The protection of wild space is foremost. The second value is a place to visit where one can sometimes escape human development and motorized activities. It is one of the few places left in the Sea to Sky corridor where snowmobiling can be avoided.
The meadows east of Whistler Mountain are some of the most extensive in Garibald Park and must suffer no further degradation such as resulted from the expansion of Whistler Mountain into "Symphony Bowl". In fact, I would support turning "Symphony Bowl" back into parkland and removing the chairlift.
3 (b) Are there any resources in the study area that require special management attention or protection?
The alpine meadows between Russet Lake and Whistler Mountain.
Wildlife populations.
View corridors (such as Whistler Blackcomb being allowed to cut ski runs directly in the viewscape northwest from Singing Pass.
Soundscape intrusions from heli skiing and flightseeing.
4 What would you say are the key issues in the study area?
Prohibition of directly and closely motorized recreation.
Singing Pass access restored from current state of being surrendered by BC Parks to Whistler Blackcomb.
5 (a) Do you have any comments regarding public access to the study area?
Singing Pass public access must restored from the current state of being surrendered by BC Parks to Whistler Blackcomb.
I have been confronted by Whistler Blackcomb employees both in summer and winter attempting to block me from passing through their expanded area on my way to Singing Pass. This is not acceptable and must be discontinued.
5 (b) How do you feel about mountain biking in the study area of Garibaldi Park?
Mountain biking in this area is almost invariably performed by using chairlifts. Thus it is a partially motorized activity and so does not support park values.
Mountain bikers have been accessing Singing Pass illegally ever since Whistler Blackcomb built mountain bike trails, and this must be curtailed.
5 (c) How do you feel about a system of 3-4 backcountry huts in the study area of Garibaldi Park?
It depends on what is envisioned. High-end huts catering to wealthy Whistler Blackcomb customers are unwelcome. Basic, unstaffed huts provided for non-motorized park visitors are welcome, but not necessary.
5(d) How do you feel about heli-skiing in the study are of Garibaldi Park?
It should be banned. Period. Heli-skiing heavily conflicts with park values. There are plenty of perfectly good places nearby without using the park. Especially a park that serves as a refuge for non-motorized backcountry travelers to escape rampant snowmobiling in in the Sea to Sky corridor.
5 (e) Do you feel there are any improvements needed in the study area of Garibaldi Park?
Proper public access must be restored for hikers visiting Singing Pass, and provision for non-paid parking for park visitors in winter.
I'd suggest a new hiking trail that leaves the main Singing Pass Trail around 5300', contours around to the north of Adit Lakes, and climbs to Russet Lake. This would provide spectacular views of the Overlord Glacier, and would be the best glacier views in the park.
I support enforcing the ban on mountain biking in the study area, and terminating helicopter recreation in the study area.
|
|
|
Vancouver, BC
Canada
2659 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 8:12 PM
|
| I've been attending meetings for the formation of Friends of Garibaldi Park. We've been kicking around the idea of mountain biking for the park in general, not the Spearhead Range specifically. Results so far have been inconclusive, so from that perspective some opinions would be helpful for me too. (Let's keep it a clean fight tho) |
Edited by - mad owl woman on 02/12/2012 8:14 PM |
|
|
Vancouver, BC
Canada
874 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 8:17 PM
|
The form is FKD on my computer. If I enter more than a few fields, the cursor jumps randomly and it is impossible to finish entering the data. I suspect they outsourced it to save a few bucks.
Honestly, how hard is it to design a simple HTML form? We trust these idiots with our parks?
|
|
|
Vancouver
1809 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 8:19 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by mad owl woman
I've been attending meetings for the formation of Friends of Garibaldi Park. We've been kicking around the idea of mountain biking for the park in general, not the Spearhead Range specifically. Results so far have been inconclusive, so from that perspective some opinions would be helpful for me too. (Let's keep it a clean fight tho)
There are SO many alternative places to go mountain biking in the Sea to Sky corridor that it's not at all needed in this part of Garibaldi Park. Especially mountain biking that's partly motorized by using ski lifts, and done more for stunting than enjoying the park. |
|
|
 | Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
|
Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 8:21 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by sgRant
Thanks, matosan for the post and the link.
Here's my answers to the survey:
2 (a) What types of recreational activities do you think should be permitted in the study area? Why?
Hiking, backcountry skiing, snowshoeing. These activities best support the reason for the park's existence, have minimal environmental impact, and maximize health benefits to participants.
No climbing huh? No mountaineering? Figured as much. |
|
|
North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1603 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 8:25 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by sgRant
5 (c) How do you feel about a system of 3-4 backcountry huts in the study area of Garibaldi Park?
It depends on what is envisioned. High-end huts catering to wealthy Whistler Blackcomb customers are unwelcome. Basic, unstaffed huts provided for non-motorized park visitors are welcome, but not necessary.
More info on the proposed huts can be found here. It is being led by a good group of organizations.
http://www.spearheadhuts.org/
Re mountain biking. It is non-motorized access to the backcountry and so I would support it if is managed properly. |
|
|
| LeeL
Advanced Member
|
Extreme ski tourin, mountain bikin addict who hikes at least once a year
2506 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2012 : 10:09 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by swebster
The FMCBC hasn't formed an official response yet... but our general thoughts on some of these issues have been:
-Spearhead Huts need to be done "right"
-Heli-skiing is inconsistent with the park
-A bridge should be constructed over Fitzsimmons Creek at the IPP intake for Singing Pass trail access, either a vehicle bridge so you can drive to the old parking lot, or a footbridge with parking at the intake. Needs cooperation from various stakeholders to allow driving to there.
I personally haven't given much thought to the mountain biking issue yet. Would be happy to hear some opinions from here. When we come up with our response we can distribute it.
Scott,
I'd be happy to canvass the mtb community and collect some opinions. Here are mine:
- bike use was permitted to access subalpine and alpine trails in the late 80s. It's good that BC Parks is open to allowing use once again as part of the non-motorized component
- It would need some thought to manage or control choke points or high-traffic areas. Might need to declare certain trails off-limits or allow traffic only at certain times or dates (this is done in Alice Lake for example and the dates are respected)
- initial inclination is that lift-accessed ingress to the Park should be curtailed. Not all lift-accessed riders would be stunt-riding yobboes but my gut feel is that limiting this to self-power would inherently govern the numbers and types of riders who would access Parks. It seems somewhat disingenuous to do so since there is no limit on lift-accessed hiking into the Park but those are just my initial thoughts.
- Lots of trail maintenance ethic in the Whistler/Pemberton/Squamish/Vancouver corridor among mountain-bikers. Would love to see local volunteers possibly extend efforts to sub and alpine park trails but that can be discussed with local organizations and is somewhat outside the ambit of discussion of park use. Although I always am of the view that with rights (access to the park) should come some responsibility (leave the place better than you found it)
That's my initial take Scott and appreciate the FMCBC being open to it. |
|
|
| LeeL
Advanced Member
|
Extreme ski tourin, mountain bikin addict who hikes at least once a year
2506 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2012 : 10:11 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by mad owl woman
I've been attending meetings for the formation of Friends of Garibaldi Park. We've been kicking around the idea of mountain biking for the park in general, not the Spearhead Range specifically. Results so far have been inconclusive, so from that perspective some opinions would be helpful for me too. (Let's keep it a clean fight tho)
M o o - let me know if there's specific questions/concerns and I'll try my best to collect some input. |
|
|
271 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2012 : 10:42 AM
|
I submitted the form and support the current backcountry use and access.
I feel the Heli operations can move further out since they can easily access the next drainages whereas non-motorized users cannot.
The huts would be a great way to mitigate waste, educate users and accommodate the current visitors to park. Currently the area is insufficiently managed for the number of users accessing the park.
I also support allowing mountain biking in the area as has been previously allowed.
For mountain biking, considering the area is heavily used a shared time system can be adopted, ie;, mountain biking only during the week and not on the heavily used weekends in July and Aug.
Downhill mountain biking in this area is a non-starter. The trails are not conducive to this aspect of mountain biking. |
|
|
271 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2012 : 10:49 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by sgRant
There are SO many alternative places to go mountain biking in the Sea to Sky corridor that it's not at all needed in this part of Garibaldi Park. Especially mountain biking that's partly motorized by using ski lifts, and done more for stunting than enjoying the park.
Not in the alpine, if managed properly it is viable. Mountain biking used to be allowed and should be again.
Not sure what you mean by 'stunting' but I can't see a lot of support for anything but natural trails in the park.
Since most hikers also access the area by the lifts, you could say that this aspect is also motorized... so that's an invalid argument to deny mountain bikers but not hikers.
Unless you want ALL access to be via Singing Pass. That would certainly curtail a lot of use and pretty much eliminate access via Blackcomb. Since the Blackcomb area is where most of the heli skiing is you might as well allow them to continue since not many people will be getting into this area without lift access... |
|
|
Richmond, BC
Canada
2440 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2012 : 11:29 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dru
quote:
Originally posted by sgRant
Thanks, matosan for the post and the link.
Here's my answers to the survey:
2 (a) What types of recreational activities do you think should be permitted in the study area? Why?
Hiking, backcountry skiing, snowshoeing. These activities best support the reason for the park's existence, have minimal environmental impact, and maximize health benefits to participants.
No climbing huh? No mountaineering? Figured as much.
Don't worry I'm sure Steve didn't mean to leave you out. Mountaineering is a given. |
|
|
Richmond, BC
Canada
2440 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2012 : 12:08 PM
|
We're talking about what we want and who we want to access the corridor but the primary issues that seriously need to be dealt with here are erosion control for Alpine and drainage areas and waste management as a result of increased usage and access. You can have your non-"motorized" activities and possibly incorporate lift access but the key is to developing a workable environmentable protection plan that puts stewardship pressure on all stake holders.
My question is simple:
With all the cutbacks in BC Parks, Is consideration being given to ammending the plan in order to place more responsiblity for stewardship on both public and private stakeholders. Thereby reducing the costs and involvement of BC Parks to maintain and manage this area of the park? I see this as a way to reduce their involvement which is not consistant with Park strategies and best practises.
This would make an easy out for them over the next few years, so the MTb and pedestrian users need to collaborate and coordinate strategies to ensure that BC Parks doesn't abandon their responsibilities to this area and get back to grass roots Park management and best practices.
Current needs:
Badly needed erosion control in the Fitzsimmons drainage
Waste management in the Spearhead and Singing Pass Russet Lake areas as someone pointed out
Trail management that can handle the increased traffic
Bottom line is, this takes a lot of money so who's responsiblity is it? I can see where BC Parks is heading with this ie: you guys made it your playground so you take care of it, because we're walking away from it. It's too much work for us.
We need to work out a plan that avoids a sell off of Parks and Services. |
|
|
Vancouver, BC
Canada
1422 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 12:10 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Steventy
Some hot potatoes in this one including the idea of developing mountain biking trails in the Spearhead area and possibly phasing out heli-skiing.
Does anyone have more info on this one:
"Direction regarding a winter safety route to the Cheakamus Lake parking lot."
Do they mean putting in orange poles each winter from Singing Pass all the way down to Cheakamus Lake parking lot?
I think they mean marking the trail more thoroughly so that lost skiers who come down from Whistler Mountain can follow it out. A few years ago a guy snowboarded down to Cheakamus Lake, got lost, broke through the ice, then froze to death.
Singing Pass trail has some new large (4") markers placed high up for winter use. |
|
|
Vancouver
1809 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 10:51 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by weedWhacker
The form is FKD on my computer. If I enter more than a few fields, the cursor jumps randomly and it is impossible to finish entering the data. I suspect they outsourced it to save a few bucks.
Honestly, how hard is it to design a simple HTML form? We trust these idiots with our parks?
I agree with the sentiments.
Every time you try to reposition the cursor, it repositions itself back to the question about how many times you visited the study area.
You can tab forward through the questions, or hold the alt key and right-click to position the cursor. |
|
|
Vancouver, BC
Canada
2659 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 7:16 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by LeeL
M o o - let me know if there's specific questions/concerns and I'll try my best to collect some input.
Thanks for the offer Lee  I had to think about it a bit.
Not being a mountain biker myself, I'm guessing that mountain biking trails need to be built to slightly burlier standards.
I guess my questions to the mountain biking community would be:
a. Are there existing trails that you would like to see become multi-use?
b. Is there an appetite for putting in the time and energy (and fundraising) to upgrade trails if the trails would then be multi-use?
c. Are there areas of the park you would like to see developed for mountain biking use that currently have no hiking trails?
|
|
|
Vancouver, BC
Canada
874 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 7:37 PM
|
I don't have a dog in this fight, but in my trail building / restoration experience, the trouble with mountain bikes is that some riders lock their wheels when descending. The result is a long skid mark, often hundreds of meters at a time. The skids remove vegetation, especially moss and grass. Then, next time it rains the dirt washes away and you are left with a trail of loose boulders, like the Binkert trail.
|
Edited by - weedWhacker on 02/14/2012 7:38 PM |
|
|
271 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 7:47 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by weedWhacker
I don't have a dog in this fight, but in my trail building / restoration experience, the trouble with mountain bikes is that some riders lock their wheels when descending. The result is a long skid mark, often hundreds of meters at a time. The skids remove vegetation, especially moss and grass. Then, next time it rains the dirt washes away and you are left with a trail of loose boulders, like the Binkert trail.
Bikes can usually stop within hundreds of meters... I don't think I'd want to be on a trail that would take me hundreds of meters to stop!
Most trails don't have moss and grass on them either, even hiking ensures that.
Simple trail design; bench cut, grade reversals can mitigate erosion cause by braking. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Garibaldi Park Management Plan Amendment
