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2421 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 08:26 AM
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I just got the following notice about the plan to build a glass-bottomed viewing platform over the Athabasca Icefields. Other than the scenic destruction and the impact on the environment, this will restrict access to the surrounding mountains. If you want to limit commercial operations in the national parks, and if you care about keeping them open to everyone, please send your comments to the Parks Superintendent.
"""Glacier Discovery Walk Project Update
An environmental assessment has been prepared for the proposal to construct the Brewster Travel Canada Glacier Discovery Walk at Tangle Hill on Highway 93 N in Jasper National Park. In keeping with the process outlined in the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, this environmental assessment has now been released for public review and comment. Any person wishing to review and comment on the assessment may do so.
Copies of the environmental assessment can be viewed at:
The Jasper National Park Administration Office:
607 Connaught Drive, Jasper, Alberta
The Jasper Municipal Library:
303 Bonhomme Street, Jasper, Alberta
The Glacier Discovery Walk Website:
www.glacierdiscoverywalk.com/downloads
All comments should be provided in writing by December 16, 2011 to:
Superintendent
Jasper National Park
Box 10, Jasper, AB T0E 1E0
Fax: 780-852-6229
Email: jasper.superintendent@pc.gc.ca """ |
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876 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 09:13 AM
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| Despite the fact that their location/design is relatively well conceived to minimize visual impact, this thing is still utter idiocracy. As if the glacier buggy tours, visitor centre & huge parking lot weren't enough, we now have this stupidity. Thanks for the links Peter. Get writing people!! |
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Calgary, Alberta
Canada
32 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 10:06 AM
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From an environmental impact standpoint, the GDW itself isn't going to do much to the area since it's located right below the existing highway. See Pg. 5 on: http://www.glacierdiscoverywalk.ca/files/Brewster-GDW-CEAA_Nov_18_2011.pdf
That being said if it does go through, it will:
1) Cause traffic jams near Tangle Creek Falls which is already busy enough with the parking lot located near a blind corner which is already dangerous enough
2) Potentially increase the number of visitors to the park - a good thing for more park funding but a bad thing in increased traffic which is already horrible in the summer time with so many RVs and tour busses
The last thing I want is another twinned highway from Lake Louise to Jasper. THAT will completely spoil the landscape, and the wilder, more remote feel of the icefield parkway. |
Edited by - BeeWee on 11/23/2011 10:09 AM |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 10:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BeeWee
From an environmental impact standpoint, the GDW itself isn't going to do much to the area since it's located right below the existing highway.
Umm, how would it be located 'below the existing highway'? The Discovery Walk is supposed to be a glass-bottomed platform overlooking the glacier. Even if located right beside it, the DW would still block the view of the glacier from other angles.
Brewsters will address only such issues as they can successfully make a case for, and will ignore anything that might make them look bad.
As has been pointed out, despite their protestations to the contrary, it also looks like Brewsters plan to make access to the Discovery Walk a private one, blocking access for other visitors and for hikers and climbers unless they're willing to pay.
Don't believe everything you read. |
Edited by - peter1955 on 11/23/2011 2:05 PM |
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876 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 12:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by peter1955
quote:
Originally posted by BeeWee
From an environmental impact standpoint, the GDW itself isn't going to do much to the area since it's located right below the existing highway.
Umm, how would it be located 'below the existing highway'? The Discovery Walk is supposed to be a glass-bottomed platform overlooking the glacier. Even if located right beside it, the DW would still block the view of the glacier from other angles.
Brewsters will address only such issues as they can successfully make a case for, and will ignore anything that might make them look bad.
As has been pointed out, despite their protestations to the contrary, it also looks like Brewsters plan to make the road to the Discovery Walk a private one, blocking access for hikers and climbers unless they're willing to pay.
Don't believe everything you read.
Here's the direct link to the visual impact study, which demonstrates how it is located below the highway:
http://www.glacierdiscoverywalk.ca/files/Brewster-GDW-Visibility-Study_March_1_2011.pdf
It looks like it is located on the downhill side of Tangle Hill adjacent to the highway. I can't see it obstructing any views or blocking any access routes for hikers or climbers, and it won't create a new footprint. Doesn't mean I think it's a good idea, but you have to admit it's pretty well located and designed to minimize visual and environmental impact. |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 1:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dav1481
It looks like it is located on the downhill side of Tangle Hill adjacent to the highway. I can't see it obstructing any views or blocking any access routes for hikers or climbers, and it won't create a new footprint. Doesn't mean I think it's a good idea, but you have to admit it's pretty well located and designed to minimize visual and environmental impact.
It is well-located and minimalizes visual impact only if you accept the premise that it has to be there. Otherwise, it's badly located and has a lot of visual impact.
I've stopped at that lookout before, and pulled out many times to look at the views. I guess they want exclusive rights to it?
"""Brewster is currently reviewing requests by some stakeholders to provide parking at the site after hours and off-season for individuals wishing to access hiking, scrambling and other back-country routes from this site."""
So no, you won't be able to park there, and they will control all access to the pullout. In other words, they are selling an EXCLUSIVE view. F**king Disneyland! |
Edited by - peter1955 on 11/23/2011 2:08 PM |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3502 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 2:58 PM
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| I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Brewsters. |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 3:03 PM
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| Are you sure about that, John? |
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876 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 3:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by peter1955
It is well-located and minimalizes visual impact only if you accept the premise that it has to be there. Otherwise, it's badly located and has a lot of visual impact.
Lol, true. Putting a skirt and lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact that it's just an ugly stinky pig. The skirt is nicer than I expected though 
I've heard a rumor that John hates Brewsters. Let's keep it between us, though. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3502 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 3:32 PM
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Accessing the climber's parking lot for Mt's Athabasca and Andromeda can be a tremendous pain thanks to Brewsters and their stupid gate and "private" road. I hate restricted land access within the National Parks. Golf courses? Get rid of them. Ski hills? Charge me to access the lift, but otherwise I should be able to skin/ski.
Okay, I get that Brewsters was there first, but it's 2011 and today, it's land that is designed to be accessed by all Canadians.
Total piss off: their bus customers pay less per day for park access than others. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1602 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 4:41 PM
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The visual impact study appears to be missing hordes of tourists and buses....
In the event that the project does go ahead, I would recommend that (among other things,) Brewsters must set aside enough money (in an endowment with National Parks) to properly restore the site in the event that this business venture goes sour. |
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Calgary, Alberta
Canada
32 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 4:44 PM
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In case you guys haven't seen the site in person, there's already a giant road embankment with viewing points to the south of Tangle Creek Falls. This embankment is the dominating feature of that slope and dwarfs the proposed GDW walkway. If Brewster wanted to put the GDW anywhere else in that area, I'd oppose strongly but given its location, it really doesn't make a difference in terms of negatively impacting the scenary from the road or from the view points along the road there. You can see the proposed location here: http://maps.google.ca/?ll=52.261696,-117.280855&spn=0.014499,0.065918&t=p&z=14&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=52.261712,-117.28084&panoid=cLIA6SKVzwtu8BTLy-TbZA&cbp=11,217.15,,0,5.95
Moreover, there's a giant canyon between the road and the opposite side of the valley so the likelihood of anyone actually going to the otherside of the canyon is slim to none. And even from the opposite side of the valley, the major eyesore won't be the GDW but rather the road cutting a huge path from the cliffside.
What I think is a little silly is that Brewster wants to put the GDW in a location where the public can currently access from the roadside with more or less the same view but they want to somehow charge people to use the GDW. Personally, even though the project is feasible both technically and environmentally, I really don't see the point of it. It doesn't add any value to the park and doesn't provide the public with anything new aside from a new tourist trap that will generate income for the park and for Brewster. |
Edited by - BeeWee on 11/23/2011 4:46 PM |
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Penhold, Alberta
Canada
2005 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 4:45 PM
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Aside from the total lack of necessity for this project to go through, my biggest beef is the roadside pullout that has been bought and paid for by the Canadian taxpayer will now be handed over to Brewster's for diddly squat and we won't even be able to use the pullout anymore.Progress .. not in my eyes!
Like John, not a lot of use for Brewsters and I give a rats ass how long the company or family has been in the Canadian Rockies. |
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Calgary, Alberta
Canada
32 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 4:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by darrenbell
my biggest beef is the roadside pullout that has been bought and paid for by the Canadian taxpayer will now be handed over to Brewster's for diddly squat and we won't even be able to use the pullout anymore.
Yeah, I totally agree with this point. It doesn't make sense that a private company can somehow monopolize and monetize a public view point that is currently free for all visitors. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1602 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 5:19 PM
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On the plus side, this is some good news for all the Brewsters haters:
"Ice Explorer individual visitor use rates are down 45% and group rates are down 53% from the 1999 peak."
I don't know enough to hate them or love them.
However, this makes me think that it's even more important to demand that they put aside money in an endowment so that Parks can clean up the mess if this business venture doesn't work out. I won't be shocked if people aren't willing to ride a bus and pay a bunch of money to enjoy the same view that can be seen from the free viewpoint...
Or perhaps so many people will opt for this attraction (presumably cheaper than the Ice Explorer,) that it will cannibalize the Ice Explorer business and Brewsters will choose to shut down the view point.
Either way, it's a risky business venture. The tax payer shouldn't be on the hook when this thing doesn't turn out.
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3502 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 5:58 PM
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It's the monopolization of public space that I hate. The pull-outs on the road going over the Sunwapta Pass are free for all visitors to use. Some stupid skywalk will have admission prices and evidently, the parking area is going to be private access only. F-me.
Every time I try to access the climber's parking lot when the gate is down (to read the beta book or reconnoiter) I have to have an argument with some arrogant asshole from Brewsters that has a giant fit about how I am not allowed to use THEIR space.
Then they commercialize ME. In the many times I've climbed in the area, they stop their buses so that the paying customers can take pictures of "real climbers." Once we had come down after a seriously long and tiring day and were trudging down from the terminal back to the parking lot. The bus stopped. We asked if we could just hop on for the quick ride down to the climber's parking lot. No. Wouldn't that have just been a nice gesture after we so graciously stopped to pose for your tourists?
As much as I hate Brewsters, I still posed with the bus riders up on the glacier at their stopping point as we skied down this spring. Not their fault Brewsters are such jerks. |
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Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13015 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 6:53 PM
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Truly unadulterated horseshit
I'd say more, but John, you pretty much have it covered |
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Calgary, Alberta
Canada
32 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 7:58 PM
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Along the lines of privatizing a public view point in a national park, the GDW also sets poor precedence for future developments in the Canadian national parks. What if Brewster wants to capitalize on more scenic viewpoints such as the lookout on the opposite of Bow Falls from Banff Springs hotel, the Banff Hoodoos, Johnston Canyon, and other bus accessible and popular locations?
The national parks should allow development that is in the interest of park visitors while balancing the need to protect the ecosystem that it coveres. At the same time, because it's a national park and a UNESCO world heritage site in which everyone have a stake in, it shouldn't be allowed to be sold to corporations. If Brewster wants to spend money on a new observation platform that doesn't harm th environment, good for them; but they shouldn't be able to monopolize the area. This is the approach for all waterfront areas in the state of Hawaii; no matter how much money a company spends to build and maintain a world class resort, their waterfront property including the beaches must be publically accessible and they have no right to refuse public entry to the beach. In fact, by law, they must provide public routes of access to their beach front. |
Edited by - BeeWee on 11/23/2011 8:00 PM |
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206 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 10:49 PM
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Just drive around the gate to the climbers parking lot unless they made the gate bigger since September or moved the rock closer...
Cheers,
Dan |
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972 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 11:06 PM
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ya john, i think most vehicles can fit around the gate. i always drive right through and never have a problem.
As far as this skywalk goes,i'm wondering what big pig came up with this idea.
is brewsters not making enough money?? do they really think this skywalk is going to be the best thing around when it is built? i really dont see how it could be,the drive itself from louise to the icefields is one of the best in canada and that only costs a tank of gas.
i hope all the tourists dont buy into this,hopefully they realize this stupid skywalk isnt going to add anything to their experience. just the drive is all you need...but brewsters aint making money off gas,so lets carve something into the mountainside.
oink oink |
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| Engor
Intermediate Member
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Calgary
838 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2011 : 12:06 AM
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I agree with BeeWee. I don't see a big problem with this project except that it will set a bad precedent of restricting the public access to the roadside pullout built on public money. I was really off when some morons at the Lake Louise Ski Resort didn't allow me to cross the ski resort on skis because it's "their property". There should be no restriction of this kind in the national park.
Having said this, the roadside pullout seems to be of no use for hikers or climbers so it won't hurt anyone's interest except it can bad a set precedent.
95% of park visitors and almost all Brewster customers don't hike more than a few hundred meters off the highway. Lots of them will be thrilled at this attraction, especially families with kids, the elderly, and Japanese tourists. The number of visitors is in a steady decline since 2001 and Parks Canada is eager to reverse the trend. I don't see a reason to object to this project IF the idea of a free public access to the roadside pullout is not compromised. |
Edited by - Engor on 11/24/2011 12:10 AM |
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Brewsters Buys The Parks - Discovery Walk
