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Squamish, BC
Canada
70 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2011 : 06:32 AM
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The CRB's weigh in at about 3lbs (as per the Voile website), 7TM Power Tours with a step in heel weigh about 4lbs. I know, it's an extra half pound per foot, however the increase in touring efficiency more than out weighs the, 1/2lb weight difference.
Early in the season I was riding some k2's that I have mounted with some Targa T9's (with the g3 tour heel), while yes they were lighter (nice while on my back), but they felt like alot more work to ski along with in comparison to my 4frnt's that I have mounted up with 7tm PowerTours. The 4frnts are a heavier setup for sure, but are also way nicer to ski. I'm totally sold on the free pivots, and only really use old school bindings when the skis will be on my back, more than my feet.
And with some folks moving over to NTN, there are some great deals to be found on 7tm's on the used boards. I just picked up a second pair with a step in heel for a hundred bucks.
My only complaint with the 7tm's is that the heel risers are kind of balls, they get bent easily & can become loose in the highest setting. |
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Vancouver
1808 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2011 : 3:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BackCountryPunk
The CRB's weigh in at about 3lbs (as per the Voile website), 7TM Power Tours with a step in heel weigh about 4lbs. I know, it's an extra half pound per foot, however the increase in touring efficiency more than out weighs the, 1/2lb weight difference.
The way I have my CRB's set up, they weigh 2lb 10oz per pair. I use a simple runaway strap instead of the steel brake, for instance. Using the 3-pin/cable toepieces instead of the simpler cable-only toepieces, I can get the weight down even farther for touring, by mounting the cables only to go downhill. That system also has some redundancy in case of binding failure.
You may well be right about the efficiency. From another angle, xc track skis, where efficiency is even more of a concern, have completely gone away from the 3-pin configuration to a pivot system. |
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Squamish, BC
Canada
70 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2011 : 5:57 PM
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| I like the look of the 3pin / cable bindings, & have been keeping my eyes open for a pair in the 2nd hand shops. It'd make a great lightweight set up on some trabs or volkls. Unfortunately all I ever seem to find are the cable only versions. |
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Vancouver
1808 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2011 : 7:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BackCountryPunk
I like the look of the 3pin / cable bindings, & have been keeping my eyes open for a pair in the 2nd hand shops. It'd make a great lightweight set up on some trabs or volkls. Unfortunately all I ever seem to find are the cable only versions.
I've never seen any for sale around here, but they appear regularly on eBay.
On eBay, most of the sets that come up for sale are either the ones with a separate release plate (which makes them heavier), or the 3-pin/cable style. Our family has 5 pairs of skis with CRB style bindings, and I have a box of spares. The parts I keep an eye out for are the cables and the simplest toepieces.
It's interesting that the CRB's and parts for them usually sell for pretty good prices. For instance, at the moment, a non-release set:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voile-3-Pin-Cable-Telemark-Binding-w-Climbing-Wires-Barely-used-/150705123210?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2316b9af8a |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2011 : 3:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachelo
I think that skiers need to lighten up in a few places where it's not possible to put in more than one track, ...
I went up to Miquelon on Saturday with nine people on snowshoes. I warned them that it wasn't polite to walk on the X-Country tracks, and they made a real effort to do so. I forget, though, that the tracks at places like Elk Island are set by a machine, so they're always on one side of the trail. That leaves lots of room on the opposite side for snowshoers.
At Miquelon, where the trails aren't properly groomed, the skiers had set their own tracks many days before; they had gone down the centre of the trail on straight sections, then cut corner to corner on the turns. In order to avoid stepping on them, we had to continually cross and recross, stepping over. It made for a difficult walk.
Of all the numerous tracks on the trail, none were human except the ski tracks. By the time we got out to the far end, the amount of animal tracks on the X-country tracks was so extensive as to make them useless. Because of the damage that was already there, it became a lot easier to just walk along ignoring the old ski tracks without feeling too guilty about it.
On a shared trail, it would be easier to be polite if the skiers would stick to one side of the trail or the other. Had we been there first, they would have been able to set their tracks quite easily on the semi-packed trail left by the snowshoes. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1422 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2011 : 3:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by peter1955
quote:
Originally posted by Rachelo
I think that skiers need to lighten up in a few places where it's not possible to put in more than one track, ...
I went up to Miquelon on Saturday with nine people on snowshoes. I warned them that it wasn't polite to walk on the X-Country tracks, and they made a real effort to do so. I forget, though, that the tracks at places like Elk Island are set by a machine, so they're always on one side of the trail. That leaves lots of room on the opposite side for snowshoers.
At Miquelon, where the trails aren't properly groomed, the skiers had set their own tracks many days before; they had gone down the centre of the trail on straight sections, then cut corner to corner on the turns. In order to avoid stepping on them, we had to continually cross and recross, stepping over. It made for a difficult walk.
Of all the numerous tracks on the trail, none were human except the ski tracks. By the time we got out to the far end, the amount of animal tracks on the X-country tracks was so extensive as to make them useless. Because of the damage that was already there, it became a lot easier to just walk along ignoring the old ski tracks without feeling too guilty about it.
On a shared trail, it would be easier to be polite if the skiers would stick to one side of the trail or the other. Had we been there first, they would have been able to set their tracks quite easily on the semi-packed trail left by the snowshoes.
Good point about the criss-cross - I hadn't really considered that before. Probably the thing to do if you encounter the back and forth corner cutting is to just stick to one side and make the skiers re-break the corners along the middle of the trail. Then the end result is two parallel trails. The criss-cross can go both ways though (if snowshoers break trail first). And you're right those wild animals sure are inconsiderate. One time I had my skin track postholed by a deer.
Also please realize a snowshoe track will never be completed smooth out by skiers unless it snows and skiers re-break the trail. It might look smooth after a dozen skiers go by, but it's not. |
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Vancouver
1808 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2011 : 9:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by peter1955
I went up to Miquelon on Saturday with nine people on snowshoes. I warned them that it wasn't polite to walk on the X-Country tracks, and they made a real effort to do so. I forget, though, that the tracks at places like Elk Island are set by a machine, so they're always on one side of the trail. That leaves lots of room on the opposite side for snowshoers.
At Miquelon, where the trails aren't properly groomed, the skiers had set their own tracks many days before; they had gone down the centre of the trail on straight sections, then cut corner to corner on the turns. In order to avoid stepping on them, we had to continually cross and recross, stepping over. It made for a difficult walk.
Thanks for taking this issue to heart and doing your best on the trail. I don't expect anyone to go to unreasonable lengths to avoid ski tracks. I think what Scott said is the best approach to the side-to-side problem. Moose make a helluva mess out of ski tracks too. |
Edited by - sgRant on 11/28/2011 9:24 PM |
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Vancouver
1808 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2011 : 10:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BackCountryPunk
I like the look of the 3pin / cable bindings,
The boot/binding fit is critical for these toepieces. If the cable pulls the boot forward until the 3 pins stop the boot from moving farther forward, before the sides of the boot snug against the sides of the toepieces, you will get sideways boot slop/movement during turns. This would be more of a problem the more worn the sides of the boot sole are. |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2011 : 07:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sgRant
Thanks for taking this issue to heart and doing your best on the trail.
I've always done that, which is why (as I said earlier) my groups are allowed to snowshoe in places where others aren't.
At Miquelon, we saw moose and coyote (live) and tracks for them on the trails, as well as for fox, deer, elk, hare and any number of smaller animals. Someone posted a TR last year about skiing up to a mountain hut on fresh snow, and when returning a few days later, realized all the animals in the area had been following his tracks. Like people, animals prefer to let someone else break the trail first, and a ski trail becomes their path, too. |
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Powell River, BC
371 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2011 : 10:20 AM
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Great honey badger video. My brother once spent a night in Tsavo East game park in Kenya fending off two honey badgers, which are supposedly pound for pound the most vicious animals in existence. Where roads meet in the park they have these huge cairns, about 10 feet high. He spent the entire night depleting the cairn, throwing stones at the honey badgers to keep them away. Fortunately it worked.
On the snowshoeing thing - I used to ski, but encroaching arthritis meant that I had to give it up. The fact that I can no longer ski doesn't immediately turn me into a crater clomper and mean that my brain has turned to mush. Snowshoeing allows me to still get outside in the winter, and get great exercise into the bargain. I probably get more pleasure in my surroundings now than when I was skiing past them. I always try to keep out of ski tracks, but sometimes you have no choice. And that's the reality of living in close proximity to millions of other people. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
874 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2011 : 10:38 AM
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Peter1955: I have noticed that various animals use the TB and Hat trails, far more than humans. Clearing a trail, or breaking a path through deep snow, turns it into a highway for the local wildlife. I have seen deer, bear, bob cat and cougar tracks every time I hike there, whereas boot tracks (other than mine) are infrequent to say the least.
Now if I was an AT skier, I would insist all these crater-clomping free-loaders be euthanized immediately to preserve my perfect tracks. Fortunately, I am a tele skier and snowshoer though.
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Edited by - weedWhacker on 11/29/2011 10:39 AM |
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Vancouver
1808 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2011 : 4:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by weedWhacker
Peter1955: I have noticed that various animals use the TB and Hat trails, far more than humans. Clearing a trail, or breaking a path through deep snow, turns it into a highway for the local wildlife. I have seen deer, bear, bob cat and cougar tracks every time I hike there, whereas boot tracks (other than mine) are infrequent to say the least.
Now if I was an AT skier, I would insist all these crater-clomping free-loaders be euthanized immediately to preserve my perfect tracks. Fortunately, I am a tele skier and snowshoer though.
I've been in deep trail-breaking conditions on skis where we've sometimes followed mountain goat or moose tracks on logging roads. Rough, but their tracks helped us in conditions where we needed the break. |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
1293 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2011 : 6:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sgRant
I've been in deep trail-breaking conditions on skis where we've sometimes followed mountain goat or moose tracks on logging roads. Rough, but their tracks helped us in conditions where we needed the break.
Grizzly Bears are the worst crater clompers. It's disconcerting to see Grizzly prints following the trackset of a couple of people who had passed by you an hour before... |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 11:28 AM
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| Yeah. When you see them doing that, you should stop and have a few words with the grizzlies about being so inconsiderate. |
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Vancouver
1808 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2011 : 8:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by peter1955
Yeah. When you see them doing that, you should stop and have a few words with the grizzlies about being so inconsiderate.
Tell 'em to smarten up and get some snowshoes. |
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powder snow and the snow shoe
