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322 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2011 : 9:42 PM
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Whistler Heli-Skiing's Park Use Permit, allowing them to operate in the Spearhead Range, in one of the most pristine areas of Garibaldi Park near the Whistler/Blackcomb ski area, expired in the Spring- but they have been quietly, without any public consultation, had their Park Use Permit extended for another 5 years.
So despite a massive increase in the number of ski mountaineers doing the world-class Spearhead Ski Traverse from Blackcomb to Whistler, and an even greater number of out-of-area skiers who use the Spearhead area on virtually every good weather day, B.C. Parks has basically caved in to the very limited commercial heli-ski interests still operating in Garibaldi Park, and extended a permit that I maintain the vast majority of winter recreationists are opposed to.
Their excuse is that extending the Park Use Permit is consistent with the current Garibaldi Park Master Plan- while failing to acknowledge that the plan is completely outdated (21 years old), and that, even when it was developed in 1990, most people were opposed to allowing heli-skiing in a Provincial Park because of the major conflict with other users.
Whistler Heli-Skiing already has a vast chunk of the Pemberton Icecap available for heli-skiing- let them operate there and leave Garibaldi Park to non-mechanized winter recreation use only. For a helicopter to fly an extra 5 minutes and avoid user conflicts is easy; for ski tourers to get away from the constant buzz of helicopters is much more difficult.
If this is something you feel strongly about, please take a moment to drop a letter and/or email to Environment Minister Terry Lake at:
The Honourable Terry Lake, Minister of Environment, PO Box 9047 Stn Prov Govt, Rm 247, Parliament Buildings, Victoria BC, V8W9E2, CANADA
Email: ENV.Minister@gov.bc.ca
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Whistler, BC
Canada
1176 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2011 : 9:54 PM
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Interesting, Frank. Do you know if they still have an option for another renewal after the five years. There have been rumours about this five being a transition time without further options for renewal.
Many of us sent letters in the spring when we were told the decision would be imminent. This is the first I've heard that the decision has been handed down. |
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322 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2011 : 10:29 PM
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I was told me that it might only encourage Parks to re-do the Garibaldi Park Master Plan a little earlier than planned- but with no guarantee of any changes in the future. For those of you around in 1990, when the last Master Plan was prepared, you may recall that there was overwhelming public opposition to extending the Park Use permit at that time- so I am pessimistic that anything will change in the future.
Parks claims that Whistler Heli-Skiing needs time to adjust to the new reality of possibly having the most lucrative part of their tenure area removed- so why didn't they tell them there wouldn't be a renewal 5 years ago??. But even if that is true, then Parks should set both a fixed time limit for the extension AND also restrict where they can operate during that time- specifically, give them two more seasons and allow them to only operate in the Phalanx and Spearhead Glacier areas, where there at least would be much less conflict with ski tourers doing the Spearhead Traverse.
For that matter, I personally wouldn't be opposed to allowing Whistler/Blackcomb to develop the Phalanx Glacier area- perhaps with a new chairlift up from the bottom of the Blackcomb Glacier outrun. That is the last and best high elevation area left for development at Whistler- something that I believe the resort needs to provide the high alpine experience that skiers today are looking for- especially given the reality of climate warming. Realistically, the ski area must remain economically viable and competitive with other ski areas- so allowing them to develop the Phalanx Glacier area in return for phasing out heli-sking in the Spearhead Range AND improving access to the Singing Pass trailhead, would seem to me to be a worthwhile compromise. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1321 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 12:11 AM
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| Having it be only a 5 year renewal is a partial victory anyway. |
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Whistler, BC
Canada
1176 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 4:18 PM
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quote:
Having it be only a 5 year renewal is a partial victory anyway.
That's what's not yet clear. If the process is as per this most recent one, there won't be much chance for input anyway, much less an open house or the like. So perhaps that one just gets rolled over as well? |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
908 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 9:26 PM
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| Sadley BC Parks is broke and things like this bring in more money! |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1321 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2011 : 9:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by msulkers
quote:
Having it be only a 5 year renewal is a partial victory anyway.
That's what's not yet clear. If the process is as per this most recent one, there won't be much chance for input anyway, much less an open house or the like. So perhaps that one just gets rolled over as well?
Well, who knows what will happen in the future, but my understanding is that the traditional renewals are for longer periods, like 10 years. By only extending it 5 years there may be some recognition that use in the area could be changing (spearhead huts etc.) and this gives the ability to re-evaluate sooner. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1047 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 07:13 AM
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Awesome, I have done the spearhead several times and seen a heli drop people, no big deal, there is lots of space. What I would like to see is Mountain Clubs lobby for some road activation and pay parking in the park so backcountry skiers and snowshoers can have better access to the park. There is a ton of space out there and most 90% of the backcountry skiers can't access it without an all day effort to 4000-5000 feet to meet snow. The only reason you see more users off Whistler, Joffre and Elfin is that those are the only logical access points right now so you can't expect them not to be crowded.
Yes Heli Skiing has the vast majority of terrain and yes they can easily go else where (by the way the ice cap is more than 5 minutes away) but if they see tourers on a peak they will avoid it for another area, using mechanized to get to that area, car and chairlifts, then complaining about mechanized once your up is a little hypocritical. This is typical of non-motorized lobbying for everyone else, sleds, heli, cat and chairlifts to be banned or moved but never lobbying for more access to these areas...talk to your local clubs and work together to gain access via roads and pay parking, much like what the sled community has done on the other side of the highway.
With lots of hard work you will gain better access to those areas where mechanized can't go and have the whole area from Elfin to Whistler and beyond which is more area than you need in several lifetimes.
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Whistler, BC
Canada
1176 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 10:34 AM
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Dave. Wish it were so simple. Unfortunately, the heli operation has been focussed since fuel prices went up on the near-country and the operation was purchased by WB. Many groups, included guided groups, have had heli-flyovers (didn't happen in the old days) and some have had groups dropped above them on big slopes.
Whistler Heli has said they will avoid touring groups with notice. Last year, three groups contacted WH about a specific touring objective and toured from the Callaghan FSR up to Metaldome. As the group cleared the trees, the helis did their last lift and vacated the area. Unfortunately, most of the slope had already been heli-skied. That is not the intention of avoidance brought to the table during land management talks.
So things have changed somewhat. As Frank has pointed out, WB wanted another chunk of the park including Phalanx in the 1990 plan. So far they don't have it. They do a lot of their flying there, but also like the Spearhead Glacier, Trorey, Tremor, etc. for milk runs. In addition, there are a lot more tourers getting out further these days, so the inevitable conflicts do develop.
As for access, there is a committee reporting to the RMOW on access to Garibaldi Park for hiking/backpacking trailheads. Don't know where that will go yet, but the intention is to reclaim some lost access points and if that works for hiking, it should also benefit ski tourers... |
Edited by - msulkers on 10/11/2011 10:34 AM |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1321 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 11:22 AM
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Personally I don't want heli-skiing in the park, but if they had to have it, the Spearhead seems like the worst place to pick from a backcountry user conflict perspective...
Anyway, maybe now WB can be convinced to help with the Fitzsimmons bridge situation to "give back" to the park user community... |
Edited by - swebster on 10/11/2011 11:23 AM |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1422 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 11:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by norona
Awesome, I have done the spearhead several times and seen a heli drop people, no big deal, there is lots of space. What I would like to see is Mountain Clubs lobby for some road activation and pay parking in the park so backcountry skiers and snowshoers can have better access to the park. There is a ton of space out there and most 90% of the backcountry skiers can't access it without an all day effort to 4000-5000 feet to meet snow. The only reason you see more users off Whistler, Joffre and Elfin is that those are the only logical access points right now so you can't expect them not to be crowded.
Yes Heli Skiing has the vast majority of terrain and yes they can easily go else where (by the way the ice cap is more than 5 minutes away) but if they see tourers on a peak they will avoid it for another area, using mechanized to get to that area, car and chairlifts, then complaining about mechanized once your up is a little hypocritical. This is typical of non-motorized lobbying for everyone else, sleds, heli, cat and chairlifts to be banned or moved but never lobbying for more access to these areas...talk to your local clubs and work together to gain access via roads and pay parking, much like what the sled community has done on the other side of the highway.
With lots of hard work you will gain better access to those areas where mechanized can't go and have the whole area from Elfin to Whistler and beyond which is more area than you need in several lifetimes.
One place where you can currently buy your way to a high elevation in Garibaldi Park is up the lifts at Whistler Blackcomb. The popularity of this access routes is why there is a conflict between heli skiing and ski tourers. If the heli skiers were up in the Wedgemount area instead of the Spearhead Range there would be far fewer conflicts. And wedgemount is just as close to the heliport as the spearhead. |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
667 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 11:51 AM
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| GOOD! For those that just want to get out and have a good day in the back country and have the bucks without having to slog all the way up for hours and hours just for one run all the power to them. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1321 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by MatthewBaldwin
GOOD! For those that just want to get out and have a good day in the back country and have the bucks without having to slog all the way up for hours and hours just for one run all the power to them.
There are alternate places to do this though, rather than dropping in right above some ski tourer. I don't think anyone in this thread has been arguing against heli-skiing in general. |
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322 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 3:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by scottN
One place where you can currently buy your way to a high elevation in Garibaldi Park is up the lifts at Whistler Blackcomb. The popularity of this access routes is why there is a conflict between heli skiing and ski tourers. If the heli skiers were up in the Wedgemount area instead of the Spearhead Range there would be far fewer conflicts. And wedgemount is just as close to the heliport as the spearhead.
Coast Range Guiding originally had a Park Use Permit for the Wedge Glacier area; it would be a far better area for Whistler Heli-Skiing to be operating in compared to the Spearhead Range. But I think today, any heli-skiing in Garibaldi Park is not acceptable- too many user conflicts and environmental impacts. |
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Whistler, BC
Canada
1176 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 3:51 PM
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There are also the Ipsoot area and Miller Creek, used for years, and the "enhanced" tree runs on the NE shoulder of Rainbow. These are also very close.
I suspect that part of the draw for right behind WB in the park is that the views are more spectacular...and the clients on the lifts get to see and hear the helis heading for powdies behind the resort. |
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 | LeeL
Advanced Member
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 Extreme ski tourin, mountain bikin addict who hikes at least once a year
2507 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 5:40 PM
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| It's too bad this happened without any warning if true. I know I sent in a comment letter but heard nothing back. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
517 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 03:27 AM
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Originally posted by rocker_man1
Sadley BC Parks is broke and things like this bring in more money!
I remember one of the owners of a backcountry hut saying that he pays the Crown $7 per skier per day (this is for self-propelled skiing) while the heli-ski operations pay $1 per skier per day. I am sure someone out there has the actual numbers and they might be different across the province.
My understanding is this revenue along with the taxes the heli-operations pay goes directly to the government and not to BC Parks. Unfortunately the government just keeps cutting the BC Parks budget. Even if they manage to increase the heli-ski fees, it is highly unlikely they would end up with BC Parks.
As for WH being courteous of backcountry skiing my personal experience is negative. We have been given the finger by WH once on Decker and twice on Paterson and Trorey in the last three years. Super frustrating!
If you care about this issue please do raise it in the online form for Garibaldi Park Management Plan Amendment as well
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/planning/mgmtplns/garibaldi/garibaldi_mp_amend_comment_form.html
There is still time! |
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Kootenay Bud
2695 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 07:49 AM
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| I always thought tenure tax on recreational use of Crown Land was a percentage of revenue, so I don't see how a backcountry lodge operator is paying 7 times what a heliski operation is paying unless they are making 7 times the profit which seems unlikely. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1321 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 09:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sandy
I always thought tenure tax on recreational use of Crown Land was a percentage of revenue, so I don't see how a backcountry lodge operator is paying 7 times what a heliski operation is paying unless they are making 7 times the profit which seems unlikely.
I'm pretty sure it is a per person thing actually. I don't recall the specific amounts, but a lower rate for heli-skiing does ring some bells. I'll see if I can find the details. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1047 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 10:35 AM
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Remember people the only reason you got to the Spearhead is because of a motorized lift. Your not hiking from the bottom as if you were it would be simple to go anywhere else as well. The spearhead is only famous or awesome because it is the only one the majority of people can access...want to be alone? The mountains stretch from the Sea 2 Sky to the #1 in Lytton, no space to play? Hardly doubt it...heli skiers are not poaching your lines more than other skiers...leave early sleep outside or in a hut and get the first. The early bird always gets the worm. I am out side twice a day doing all activities and I basically never see anyone...on the weekend this is different but hey if your going to work with the masses then you are going to play with the masses when they all get off work. That should be no surprise at all.
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Kootenay Bud
2695 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 11:31 AM
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| Not true. I've done the Spearhead without using the lift. I betcha a lot of people have. As seems usual, you have missed the point with which people are concerned. |
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Helicopter skiing to remain in Garibaldi Park!
