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Vancouver, BC
Canada
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 08:14 AM
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So I've been hiking and camping for a long time, since I was a kid, but I've always been afraid of heights. This is the primary reason why I generally have no interest in mountain climbing. However, I heard scrambling is somewhere between hiking and climbing, and it is something that kind of caught my interest.
Lately I've been wanting to push my boundaries - test myself, and I've been doing that by forcing myself onto hikes where I would have to cross high and narrow bridges, I've gone zip lining which was hella scary for me, and I went up the Black Tusk, which I know is probably nothing to most people, but going up that chimney scared the crap out of me, having to go straight up several feet and being exposed like that. Normally I have no problems with that sort of thing if I am under the cover of a thick forest, but the wind blowing and nothing behind me freaked me out. I did it, and it was really fun, so I want to do it again.
I checked out that book, "Scrambles in Southwestern BC," but only got a few pages in before putting it back down. I started reading the page about how dangerous scrambling can be, about needing rope and possibly dying, etc. While I knew all this, reading it messed with my head and I sort of chickened out. I'm the sort of guy that has to just do it and not think about it. If I think about something too much, I normally chicken out.
So I'm wondering if someone can recommend how I should start doing this sort of thing. Like I said, I'm afraid of heights, so maybe some really minor stuff around Vancouver / lower mainland. I've done the Chief, and climbing over those boulders was pretty fun. |
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663 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 08:39 AM
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| Keep in mind that going up is easier than down, so don't find yourself at the top of the easiest route up something that reached your comfort limit on the way up. Practice alternate routes up and down something that has a known easy route down until you can confidently gauge what you are getting yourself into. Seymour is good for that, lots of little faces to practice on. |
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Abbotsford, BC
Canada
183 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 08:42 AM
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| Scrambles In Southwestern BC is a really good resource. The warnings at the beginning are important but don't let them freak you out. Stick to what they have rated as "easy" scrambles. More importantly find some people to go with you. Going with a friend or a group can help push you a bit. I've been wanting to get back to up Needle Peak (moderate scramble) in the Coquihalla area and I'm more than happy to bring you up. |
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South Surrey, BC
Canada
628 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 08:47 AM
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I'm in exactly the same boat pud. I am scared of heights and very shaky on slopes (picture shaking legs and tears) I haven't done black tusk cause it scares the hell out of me, so you are a step ahead of me.
I am planning to push my boundaries too as soon as the snow is gone. What I did was I too picked up "scrambles in southwest BC". However, I did not focus on the scary bits in the beginning of the book. I went through each hike listed and eliminated any that said "very difficult", "difficult" "loose rock" "routefinding" (<-- though there are a few in there I added anyway despite route finding) "glacier crossing" and focused on the ones that said "easy" "moderate" and "mostly hiking" and had 2 stars or more. Here is the list I came up with:
Mount Price
Tricouni Peak
Needle Peak
Macdonald Peak
Mount Webb
Mount MacFarlane
Golden Ears
Mount Rohr
Mount Marriott
Harris Ridge
Dickson Peak
Locomotive Mountain
Face Mountain
Tender Mountain
Rainbow Mountain
I don't know if I picked some hikes that are nuts for my level of ability and completely over my head - but will give them a shot nonetheless.
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 | Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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 Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 09:10 AM
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Go to places on the North Shore like Whytecliffe Park and Lighthouse Park and practice scrambling around on the rocks by the water. When you can do the moves with confidence in a situation with no fall consequences, then it's time to go practice the same thing in a more alpine setting.
http://www.clubtread.com/sforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35121 |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 09:13 AM
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One thing you might want to consider is going to a climbing gym. It will give you some practical experience with some of the techniques used to climb/scramble something, and you can do it in absolute safety.
Once you've gone up a wall a few times, you'll be a lot more comfortable with your fear of heights, and how to cope with it. The biggest obstacle, I found, is to be able to control the fear enough to be able to think about what your next movement is and to impliment it. If you're terrified about where you are, it's very hard to think coherently.
And once you fall off a couple of times and survive, you may find your fear of heights becoming a manageable thing.
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Edited by - peter1955 on 07/15/2011 06:28 AM |
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South Surrey, BC
Canada
628 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 09:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by peter1955
One thing you might want to consider is going to a climbing gym. It will give you some practical experience with some of the techniques used to climb/scramble something, and you can do it in absolute safety.
Once you've gone up a wall a few times, you'll be a lot more comfortable with your fear of heights, and how to cope with it. The biggest onstacle, I found, is to be able to control the fear enough to be able to think about what your next movement is and to impliment it. If you're terrified about where you are, it's very hard to think coherently.
And once you fall off a couple of times and survive, you may find your fear of heights becoming a manageable thing.
not to freak anyone out of taking Peter's good advice (climbing gym is a great idea and very good advice) - I tried it years ago. Found myself at the top of a wall freaked out from the height and very tense, as a result mildly threw out my neck/back (a few days of pain was all.. so nothing serious). Should probably give it another go and relax this time! Anyway, good advice Peter! |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 09:56 AM
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Wow, great advice people! I think I will definitely pick up that book and also check out places to practice at, like Whytecliffe Park (great pictures) and a climbing gym, as well as go up Seymour again. (Been a while since I'd been up there.) I don't think I'll ever be someone that can climb difficult spots but at the very least, I want to conquer this fear of heights. I know I'm scared to death when doing stuff like this, but I love the feeling of triumph afterwards. That's what I'm seeking.
What kind of shoes should I be wearing when doing these things? I normally wear a pair of Columbia high top hiking boots. I tend to roll my ankles easily, which is why I need that extra support on the ankles. So far I've had no problems with the minor scrambles I have done in those boots, but should I be looking for a more versatile pair? |
Edited by - pud333 on 07/14/2011 09:57 AM |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
797 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 09:57 AM
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The last three people mention getting climbing experience. I think this is unnecessary.
As a beginner with no experience, it's a good idea to stick to easy scrambles. If you're in a situation where you require some climbing moves and a fall will result in serious injury or death, you're no longer on an easy scramble (or at least not on the correct route).
By all means if you're interested in doing harder scrambles head to a climbing gym and hang on a rope, or improve your climbing skills...but for now I think your learning curve would be better suited to just getting out there on easy scrambles and improving your route finding skills, learning the mountains, and learning from people more experienced than yourself.
And as an aside, as someone who is also scared of heights, hanging on a climbing rope does absolutely nothing to help me overcome my fear of exposed, ropeless scrambling. All it did was help me feel more comfortable with...well....hanging on a rope.
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 10:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by booewen
And as an aside, as someone who is also scared of heights, hanging on a climbing rope does absolutely nothing to help me overcome my fear of exposed, ropeless scrambling. All it did was help me feel more comfortable with...well....hanging on a rope.
Interesting. Thank you for your experience, booewen. I think ultimately I want to get out there, but some practice runs would help. |
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Not too far from Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 12:58 PM
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Just wanted to say "Thank You" for posting this question, pud333, as it is something I was wondering about myself....  |
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| Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 1:06 PM
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The best way to cure yourself of a fear is through habituation.
They use this technique with phobias. Say you are scared of spiders. First they show you pictures where there might be a very small spider in the background. Then they move up slowly to pictures of bigger spiders. Once you can look at a picture of even a big spider close up, they move on to real spiders. Once you let a tarantula crawl over your leg without flinching, you are cured.
Same thing works for heights. |
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South Surrey, BC
Canada
628 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 1:13 PM
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you know what would be very cool? Someone experienced taking a bunch of people who are inexperienced in scrambling and scared of heights on some scrambles! It would be safer, the more experienced person can provide some advice/suggestions on route finding and scrambling techniques and if there were more than one scardy cat the inexperienced scrambler would not feel alone (sending it out there to the clubtread community with my fingers crossed!!)
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 1:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by pud333
... I want to conquer this fear of heights. I know I'm scared to death when doing stuff like this, but I love the feeling of triumph afterwards.
If this is the main factor, it's something that can be tackled in a number of ways. This is what I was getting from the earlier posts, and for me at least, being able to calculate the next safe move while working at some elevation was one thing I learned from climbing at the gym. Being able to function without being paralyzed by fear is a good skill to have.
I don't think a sane person ever stops being afraid of falling; it's more about controlling the fear, about not panicking and freezing halfway down a scramble and needing to be rescued. And that can be done by practise, just like any other skill. |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
797 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 1:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dru
The best way to cure yourself of a fear is through habituation.
They use this technique with phobias. Say you are scared of spiders. First they show you pictures where there might be a very small spider in the background. Then they move up slowly to pictures of bigger spiders. Once you can look at a picture of even a big spider close up, they move on to real spiders. Once you let a tarantula crawl over your leg without flinching, you are cured.
Same thing works for heights.
I agree with habituation. I just think hanging on a rope in a gym 15m up is so completely different from standing on a narrow, windy ledge with no rope, 400m up that it doesn't help for scrambling.
Find out what you're comfortable with in the mountains, and get used to airy and more exposed situations (gradually) in the mountains, and you will find where you limit is, and if you want you can then work to push that limit. Obviously do it safely and there's nothing wrong with turning around if you're not comfortable with the exposure.
Don't let other people push you to do something you're not comfortable with. This is how accidents happen. It might be fine for them because they're confident and not afraid of the expsoure, if you don't have the same confidence it can be a lot more dangerous for you because you are more likely to make a mistake. |
Edited by - booewen on 07/14/2011 1:20 PM |
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| Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 1:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by idealistic74
you know what would be very cool? Someone experienced taking a bunch of people who are inexperienced in scrambling and scared of heights on some scrambles! It would be safer, the more experienced person can provide some advice/suggestions on route finding and scrambling techniques and if there were more than one scardy cat the inexperienced scrambler would not feel alone (sending it out there to the clubtread community with my fingers crossed!!)
You know what would be really cool? If they had these places like video stores but with books you could borrow and then return!
http://bcmc.ca/index.asp
http://www.accvancouver.ca/
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 1:34 PM
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No problem, Hiking Solo.
quote:
Originally posted by peter1955
Being able to function without being paralyzed by fear is a good skill to have.
I don't think a sane person ever stops being afraid of falling; it's more about controlling the fear, about not panicking and freezing halfway down a scramble and needing to be rescued. And that can be done by practise, just like any other skill.
Yeah, this is my main goal. In the past, I've told myself that I have no choice but to do it, so I usually end up pushing through. I just need to train myself better to have the presence of mind to make as clear a decision as I can. I have had bad back problems for 3 out of the last five years, which really impeded what I could do. I hate that feeling, of not being able to do something, whether it's a physical or mental impairment, so now that my back is finally 100%, I am trying to tackle my limitations and push myself. |
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974 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 1:52 PM
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best and simplest way is to start with the scrambles that are rated easy in that sw bc book,try a couple of those and see how you feel,then try a moderate.
find a short cliff and practise climbing up and back down numerous times and if your interest continues,you could be surprised at where you will be in a year or so.
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South Surrey, BC
Canada
628 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 2:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dru
quote:
Originally posted by idealistic74
you know what would be very cool? Someone experienced taking a bunch of people who are inexperienced in scrambling and scared of heights on some scrambles! It would be safer, the more experienced person can provide some advice/suggestions on route finding and scrambling techniques and if there were more than one scardy cat the inexperienced scrambler would not feel alone (sending it out there to the clubtread community with my fingers crossed!!)
You know what would be really cool? If they had these places like video stores but with books you could borrow and then return!
http://bcmc.ca/index.asp
http://www.accvancouver.ca/
Very interesting sites Dru (great resource, especially the courses listed). My original comment was aimed more towards a "hey, I'm experienced and heading up mount price (or somewhere like that), wanna come with?".. "oh and I'm understanding and patient and welcome scaredy cats"... rather than joining a proper mountaineering group who run up the mountain leaving you behind to shit your pants (not everyone will hold your hand and be patient)
For instance the Alpine Club of Canada organized a hike up Mount Dickson (which is on my list) a few weeks ago. I have a feeling they'd have been pretty unhappy if I joined them (as they should be if some inexperienced height frightened person joined holding them back from achieving the peak)
anyway, I'll be heading out and figuring stuff out either way, so it's all good.
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Edited by - idealistic74 on 07/14/2011 2:11 PM |
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Squamish, British Columbia
Canada
1009 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 3:12 PM
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You are starting with the right mentality anyway, motivation.
With enough motivation you can overcome any fear.
Around this time last year I'd been in Canada 3 months having moved from a coach potato lifestyle in Ireland where I didn't even know what a gaiter was, and high falls creek was the most difficult hike I'd recently completed. I remember feeling unnerved by even the use of via ferrata on it.
A year later I'm fit enough and confident enough to do Wedge Mountain in a day. This time next year, 2 years from when I started hiking, I expect to be able to properly mountaineer peaks like Matier and Joffre.
I had a fear of heights, but what kept me pushing through it was the motivation to better myself by replacing irrational fears with skill and coordination. I found when I turned around on a route I knew I was capable of that when the fear had subsided the next day all I was left with was the regret of not trusting in my abilities.
I remember that feeling now whenever I come upon a crux that I know I am capable of but can feel a fear of it rising in me. Remembering it tends to abate those feelings of fear and let me progress.
The pleasure of risk is in the control needed to ride it with assurance so that what appears dangerous to the outsider is, to the participant, simply a matter of intelligence, skill, intuition, coordination- in a word, experience. - A.Alvarez |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2011 : 3:26 PM
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"It is not the mountain that we conquer, but ourselves."
Sir Edmund Hillary
(1919-2008) |
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Scrambling - How do you start?
