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Calgary, AB
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 12:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by weegit
If you do your research, spray was proven more effective in over 200 encounters of aggression vs 200 encounters where a gun was used in defence. Sorry but I can't remember the location of the study, it's linked somewhere in these forums.
IIRC this was one of many research done in the US and bear spay sold in US contains twice irritant compared to spray sold here in Canada due to some obscure regulations in place. Feel free to correct me - just a rumor I heard never had a change to confirm it.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf
Smith et al. Efficacy of Bear Spray
After being sprayed, 3 bears (43%, 3 of 7) returned, 3 did not return
(43%, 3 of 7), and one (14%, 1 of 7) did not leave the
general area.
In 7% (5 of 71) of bear spray incidents, wind was reported
to have interfered with spray accuracy, although it reached
bears in all cases. In 14% (10 of 71) of bear spray incidents,
users reported spray having negative side effects upon
themselves, ranging from minor irritation (11%, 8 of 71) to
near incapacitation (3%, 2 of 71).
On 10 occasions (14%, 10 of 71) the sight and sound
associated with spray release were reported as key factors in
changing bear behavior. In 67 spray incidents for which
distance was reported, the mean distance between user and
bear at the time of spraying was 4 m (range 1-15 m). One
user commented that he had ''squarely hit the bear'' at 10 m,
although at distances .5 m success was variable. When
bears were sprayed at 3 m (33 cases), the spray always
enveloped the bear, with only one resulting in a failure to
deter the attacking bear.
Three persons (,2% of the 175 persons involved in 71
separate incidents) suffered injury by bears that had been
sprayed with bear deterrent. One person halted the
attacking bear by spraying it at close range in the face,
and the other 2 persons were unable to spray a second dose
because the initial attack knocked the spray canister from
their hands. Nonetheless, only one of the 3 reported that the
spray had failed to protect them. No mechanical failures of
spray canisters were reported in the 71 cases.
We analyzed 11 incidents of spray misuse that resulted in
unintended consequences. In 45% (5 of 11) of incidents,
persons applied spray to objects they hoped to protect from
damage by curious bears; these efforts all failed. In 2
instances (18%), persons applied sprays as a zonal repellent
but reported bears inordinately attracted to these locations
(i.e., tent and on river bank). In 2 instances (18%), persons
reported bears attracted to spray residues following use of
bear spray for practice purposes. Repeated sprays (n ΒΌ 5)
with fully pressurized cans showed mean exit velocities
.112 6 4 km/hr (70 6 2 miles/hr).
[...]
In Alaska, bear spray was highly effective in
dealing with all 3 species of North American bears, although
more data on polar bear responses is needed. Persons
working and recreating in bear habitat should feel confident
that they are safe if carrying bear spray. Although bear spray
was 92% effective by our definition of success, it is
important to note that 98% of persons carrying it were
uninjured after a close encounter with bears.
[...]
"Spray was deemed successful when the undesirable behavior of the bear
was stopped."
As you see in 14% of cases there was effects of spay usage on the human. Ouch...
quote:
Originally posted by Kerouac
Both bear spray AND firearms are weapons.
Only if used in crime against person. Up till then it's just a tool.
quote:
Originally posted by wildtrekker
A huge factor( which slipped my mind) was the weather. I hike in all kinds of weather, and I honestly would not want to use bear spray with a full blown gale in my face, or even in a downpour. Pretty sure the spray would not be very effective in the rain...Protection in a spray canister can only be so effective.
Wind, rain, being inside tent/cabin etc. LOTS of variables to find a best solution for particular case.
More reading:
http://riflechair.blogspot.ca/2010/07/bears-dangerous-beliefs-and.html
(After some discussion with the author we both agreed that encounters near beaten trails are potentially MORE dangerous due to bears habituated to human presence.)
http://rodandgun.netfirms.com/blog/Bear_Behaviour.pdf
http://rodandgun.netfirms.com/blog/Human_Response_to_Bears.pdf
It's not about being 'manly' or anything else it's about how much risk of this sort you personally find acceptable (2%, as you could see, sustained injuries), where and when. Packing in Edmonton river valley green or Fish Creek park in Calgary probably would be a dumb thing to do (and it's illegal anyway - just a stretched example). Packing on multi day hike or canoe trip in bear/cougar country, where it's legal, far from civilization, if gear weight permits - why not? While on prairie paddling trip gun likely be a dead weight. After all it's like just having a banger, just a lot more versatile. :D Or - on multi day trips - a sleeping aid.
I carry spay most of the time because I'm needed to come back 100% of the time. But if I go in the bush with my family I take no chances and take both. I can vouch for myself and my wife being careful and behave properly in cougar and bear country but not for 3 of 9y-olds, like them not having a melted candy in their pocket.
nmcan84 and no quitting-like types are as I see it yet to reach this level of responsibility and if they never do than I hope thy leave no genetic trace in human population. |
Edited by - V1 on 05/01/2012 6:46 PM |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7093 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 1:50 PM
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| The only heat you should be packing on a hiking trail is a hot hiking chick. Hiking trails are for humans, so don't bring your guns. No different than packing heat on a sidewalk. |
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Calgary, AB
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 2:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AcesHigh
The only heat you should be packing on a hiking trail is a hot hiking chick. Hiking trails are for humans, so don't bring your guns. No different than packing heat on a sidewalk.
Again, I'd avoid word 'should' if I respect other choices. That's only your way and your (likely uneducated tho) opinion. I prefer decide for myself what to bring and what not to, within laws, for myself. |
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Newton, bc
Canada
282 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 2:30 PM
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"bear spay sold in US contains twice irritant compared to spray sold here in Canada due to some obscure regulations in place"
But french fries in Canada are twice as salty, and can be used to distact a bears attention from yourself. |
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Calgary, AB
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 2:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by troutbreath
"bear spay sold in US contains twice irritant compared to spray sold here in Canada due to some obscure regulations in place"
But french fries in Canada are twice as salty, and can be used to distact a bears attention from yourself.
Good point, they IMO can also be used as an irritant (by some trained people in hazmat suits of course. And be handled as such; force feeding someone with them ought to be considered crime against humanity) .
That's why I don't eat them (or in fact fast food). Simple, right? Matter of choice. |
Edited by - V1 on 05/01/2012 2:40 PM |
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348 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 7:57 PM
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| I am pretty sure hiking trails are for whatever you make of them. |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 10:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wildtrekker
I am pretty sure hiking trails are for whatever you make of them.
That's fine, as long as you don't have to share them with anyone. As much as we all enjoy our solitude, we still have to get along with the other people we meet, so there ARE limits. |
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Kamloops, BC
Canada
159 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 3:55 PM
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| Stick to your shooting range redneck. You make me sick.. |
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348 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 4:29 PM
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That's true peter, I will agree with you there.
quote:
Stick to your shooting range redneck. You make me sick..
Well, you make me sick too, so make sure you bring a plastic bag next time you go out...  |
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Victoria, BC
Canada
415 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 4:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wildtrekker
That's true peter, I will agree with you there.
quote:
Stick to your shooting range redneck. You make me sick..
Well, you make me sick too, so make sure you bring a plastic bag next time you go out...
Um, I think you mean reusable cloth bag.
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348 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 5:12 PM
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| I concur. |
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Brentwood Bay, BC
214 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 6:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Saltfactory
Stick to your shooting range redneck. You make me sick..
Are you referring to peter1955? Because if you are you might want to read back on a few of his posts.
You know what makes me sick... people that can't use the quote function (properly). |
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Kamloops, BC
Canada
159 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 7:10 PM
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You feel very strongly about this "quote Function" don't you? Well I apologise for the confusion. I was voicing my frustration towards Wildtrekker for feeling the need to carry a shot gun on a hiking trip.
I enjoy being in nature and doing as little harm to it as I possibly can. Knowing some lunatic is carrying a shot gun around his shoulder when out for a hike is very disconcerting. If a person is concerned about their safety then carry a bear banger or bear spray. I take neither when I venture into the wilderness as I see no need to. I've got a higher chance of dying in a car crash on the way to a hike then by any sort of wildlife threat. |
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Brentwood Bay, BC
214 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 7:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Saltfactory
You feel very strongly about this "quote Function" don't you?...
Knowing some lunatic is carrying a shot gun around his shoulder when out for a hike is very disconcerting...
Yes I do feel strongly about the quote function. Especially in year long threads with 6 pages and where someone is saying something that that want to be taken in a derogatory manner.
You know what else makes me sick. Individuals (like Saltfactory) that generalise a group of people based on assumptions. |
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Kamloops, BC
Canada
159 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 8:26 PM
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What you quoted was right above this you do know right?
The only "group of people" I am "generalizing", is Wildtrekker because of his willingness to share that he carries a shot gun on hiking trips. Keep those things to oneself as guns offend a lot of people, not just me. Did you notice that he starts off by "Generalizing" non-gun-toting people by calling them "Uppity's"? Get on his case why don't you..
Please don't use "you know what else makes me sick" for a third time.. |
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Brentwood Bay, BC
214 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 8:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Saltfactory
What you quoted was right above this you do know right?
The only "group of people" I am "generalizing", is Wildtrekker because of his willingness to share that he carries a shot gun on hiking trips. Keep those things to oneself as guns offend a lot of people, not just me. Did you notice that he starts off by "Generalizing" non-gun-toting people by calling them "Uppity's"? Get on his case why don't you..
I like the quote function.
Well don't go hiking in areas where others can lawfully carry a firearm.
And this is thread is over 1 year old, why would I go back and read the first post again. Furthermore, he didn't generalize "non-gun-toting" people as "uppity's". He didn't want to hear from "uppity's" that he can't/shouldn't carry a firearm in a National Park; which is unlawful so he might have received reply posts from "uppity" gun toter's pointing out that he would be in violation of that law.
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Edited by - joker on 05/04/2012 09:52 AM |
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canine loving, machete-toting bushwhacking lake seeker, Indiana Jones hat-wearing off-road 4x4 guru
Surrey Hole, BC
Canada
6768 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 8:52 PM
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I would like to be added to the lunatic list that carries on a trail or even a logging road.
Although rare, and not likely in the lower mainland, or frequented areas, it is my legal choice.
Bearspray is still quicker and more reasonable, rather than trying to discharge big rounds, in most cases.
There are times where having something more substantial is ideal, but many do not understand that part.
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| gyppo
Intermediate Member
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Edmonton, AB
Canada
745 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 9:27 PM
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quote:
The only "group of people" I am "generalizing", is Wildtrekker because of his willingness to share that he carries a shot gun on hiking trips.
You should listen to yourself. Your statement is completely, utterly ridiculous and intolerant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbduLLatolw |
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Kamloops, BC
Canada
159 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 9:28 PM
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@Aqua Terra - Guns are needed when bears become problems bears around mining camps or any kind of temporary camp where garbage is available to them. People obviously have to be protected in cases like that. Bear bangers and bear spray have been proven to be more effective then guns for the average hiker and I don't think a lot of people even realise that.
CBC published this story in 2008 :
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2008/03/26/bearspray.html
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348 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2012 : 9:55 PM
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I thought this was a message board based on people's thoughts and opinions.
Who invited this goof?^^ |
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Topic |
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Packing Heat on the Trail
