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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 7:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Aqua Terra
quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
Can someone remind me of why T2C was banned?
I think it was because he made better videos than I did 
LOL! |
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bandana wearin', pole huckin', view lovin', dog herdin', 4x4 navigatin', lake huntin', butt-slidin' bridge crosser, who enjoys postholing with an overnighter pack
Surrey, BC
Canada
4649 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 7:49 PM
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I know I'm biased cause he's my husband, but I agree, that was freagin funny!
quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
quote:
Originally posted by Aqua Terra
quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
Can someone remind me of why T2C was banned?
I think it was because he made better videos than I did
LOL!
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 8:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joker
Furthermore, can you please clearly state what point you are making? Is to stop all hunting or just that you don't care for it or what?
To stop the extinction of bears by gun-totting yahoos who don't need to be killing bears regardless of whether or not it's for a trophy or food. Got a problem with that? You probably do. Besides you're still just pulling this out of thin air. The last time I hunted (granted this was years ago) the ticket specifies hunting for meat over hunting for trophy....so again I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing with no real information of your own, while ignoring the actual information presented.
edit: Yep just looked it up: The licenses indeed specify trophy hunting class licenses and game hunting class licenses. You are a joke, joker. Pulling stuff straight outta your ass because you have a hate-on for Suzuki who doesn't even have anything to do with the point or the information being presented.
quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
Can someone remind me of why T2C was banned?
Phfft. Go ahead and ban me. You really outta be banning yourselves since this site serves only as a source of irresponsible disinformation rather than information.
Two different reports come out compiling 20 years and hundreds of encounters with aggressive bears and it it shows without a shadow of doubt that the bear spray is more effective, MUCH more effective than a firearm and what do we get? A hundred posters all babbling about how "Ohhh I've been in the bush before and I've seen lots of bears - no, I've never been attacked by one - but I know that this report is nonsense and that nothing beats a good shotgun"
You're wrong. Period. The reports amass more experience than the combined experience of this entire forum. They combine more experience than 20 life times worth of being in the bush and it shows these posters wrong. Period. No argument. No debate.
This is the very definition of a redneck: someone who hates education/information and insists against all reason and proof that they know better. "Darrr, dontchew tell me nuttin'.! I know better. I don't need no high brow edjimucation"
Nothing but babble about how, "nothing beats a gun", by people who admit they never had to use one in the situation we're talking about, in spite of the 20 years of combined result of actual attacks that say otherwise.
Nothing but irresponsible babble about how "making noise in the woods is just sounding the dinner bell for all the bears to come an get you", and so forth.
Go ahead and ban me. This is a joke forum populated by redneck jokers. |
Edited by - Release on 05/03/2012 8:30 PM |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7098 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 8:33 PM
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| Maybe on a remote hiking trail a gun isn't so bad for someone with their license to carry. But for anyone carrying a gun on a busy hiking trail is pathetic. Similar to taking a gun to the circus to protect yourself from bears. More of a chance of killing a human than an actual bear. |
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Brentwood Bay, BC
215 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 8:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Release
quote:
Originally posted by joker
Furthermore, can you please clearly state what point you are making? Is to stop all hunting or just that you don't care for it or what?
To stop the extinction of bears by gun-totting yahoos who don't need to be killing bears regardless of whether or not it's for a trophy or food. Got a problem with that? You probably do. Besides you're still just pulling this out of thin air. The last time I hunted (granted this was years ago) the ticket specifies hunting for meat over hunting for trophy....so again I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing with no real information of your own, while ignoring the actual information presented...
Thank you for answering the question.
Now can you please post scientific studies that show that Grizzly Bears or Black Bears are an endangered species in BC?
Or can you find a scientific study that shows that harvesting bears is significantly reducing their number?
I do not agree that your argument that the numbers provided by the reporting program support your point above. Those numbers only state how many Grizzly Bears were harvested and do not correlate to the health of the populations of Grizzly Bears within Grizzly Bear Population Units that the government of BC has defined where harvesting is allowed.
And the last time I purchased a bear tag in BC I did not have to specify my purpose of purchasing the tag. |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
1294 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 9:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Release
This is the very definition of a redneck: someone who hates education/information and insists against all reason and proof that they know better. "Darrr, dontchew tell me nuttin'.! I know better. I don't need no high brow edjimucation"
Nothing but babble about how, "nothing beats a gun", by people who admit they never had to use one in the situation we're talking about, in spite of the 20 years of combined result of actual attacks that say otherwise.
Nothing but irresponsible babble about how "making noise in the woods is just sounding the dinner bell for all the bears to come an get you", and so forth.
Go ahead and ban me. This is a joke forum populated by redneck jokers.
I have to say this is the funniest thing I've read here recently.
Let's not ban him - not that anyone really cares enough to ban this guy. |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 9:25 PM
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quote:
I do not agree that your argument that the numbers provided by the reporting program support your point above.
Yeah well you didn't read it so who cares what you think?
quote:
Thank you for answering the question.
You're welcome. Staying on point and answering points/questions is more than any of the rest of you seem to be able to do.
quote:
Now can you please post scientific studies that show that Grizzly Bears or Black Bears are an endangered species in BC?
Why does it matter if it's only BC? I'm going to ignore the fact that you wouldn't know a scientific study if it slapped you in the face and I'll also ignore the fact that no matter what I present you're going to scoff just like you did with the last ( or any) data presented regarding bear spray or hunting or anything else. The only "evidence" any from your side has presented is a pathetic petition from hunters insisting that they are conservationists and demanding they still be allowed to hunt in any numbers they want.
Bears in BC are not endangered as yet because BC, Yukon and Alaska are the last places in North America that they are present in just enough numbers to avoid getting on the endangered list - which is an arbitrary number that isn't the end-all-be-all of the state of a species.
However as I pointed out to you before these bears used to roam all of North America from Florida to Alaska and have been wiped out in many areas and have been on the endangered list everywhere else ever since. Their numbers plummeted because of being hunted into that state just like the wolf and buffalo before them. Naturally you are incapable of recognizing the pattern here but that's what ignorant people do: ignore the obvious.
In other words while the numbers are still just high enough to keep them off the list in BC, the hunting of them is the very activity that caused them to be put on the list or wiped out entirely everywhere else in North America. Subsequently anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can see that hunting them for no good reason can produce the same result in BC unless of course you think you're somehow immune to the trend that has played out everywhere else in North America.
By the way most studies regarding the extinction of species like this don't draw borders between BC and the rest of the continent. Most describe them as being endangered all totaled for all of North America so I could contend you're before you even start by limiting your question to BC. That they remain off the list for now in BC is meaningless to me but I'm sure that's all you need to declare them perfectly safe so let's all go out and shoot one for no good reason (even if the reason is food). The trend is obvious: They were hunted to the point of near extinction everywhere else, which is why I'm against doing the same thing in BC, Yukon and Alaska. It's already a crime that BC is one of the last places on earth you can even find any in numbers. If you can't see that as a trend then I can't help you and by all means tell yourself there's nothing to worry about and they'll not go endangered in BC like they have everywhere else in North America.
In a nutshell: hunting for sport (no good reason at all) has wiped out or very nearly wiped out not only bears but wolves, buffalo and a dozen more species all over North America and it's only a matter of time that it happens in the last-to-get-populated areas like BC. Naturally you close your eyes tight and ignore this obvious pattern and even pretend it isnt' happening, and naturally will rationalize your behaviour (needless urge to kill animals minding their own business with no hope of escape) by claiming that since they aren't on the endangered list yet in BC that must mean hunting is not hurting their numbers at all and it could never ever happen in BC etc., etc., so let's all go out and shoot a few bears for no good reason at all. Pathetic.
What can I say? We disagree and always will. The difference is I have the reality of history and numbers backing me up and you have meaningless rationalizations.
But when the day comes,and it will, that the bears are endangered in BC what will you do? Admit you were completely utterly full of shit? So what? Doesn't do the bears any good now does it? But of course it's useless to ask someone who sees an animal minding it's own business and thinks to themselves, "Ewww! I just gotta shoot that thing! I just can't leave it alone!" to even pretend to care what happens to them. I wonder why you bother.
Oh right: because you're pretending to be a conservationist with every animal you kill. Forgot all about that rock-solid reasoning. lol! |
Edited by - Release on 05/03/2012 9:41 PM |
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Ladysmith, B.C.
Canada
124 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 9:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HagensborgViking
How many fucking idiots can squeeze into one thread without the sides blowing out?
Agree 100% ...... if 'ego' was left out of the mix, this might have been an interesting thread.
Personaly, I carry a firearm in some situations. Short shotgun or Oreo Cookies. No hiking trails where I go, and I look after myself. Do what is appropriate in your situation .... it ain't rocket science. |
Edited by - peddlebike on 05/04/2012 2:36 PM |
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 9:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cambium
Background (Preamble):
Hunters and outdoors men & women have long been the true conservationists in Canada, North America, and the world. The money spent by Hunters and Outdoors men/women and the true care for how wildlife is managed properly is surpassed by no group.
Good gravy....when hunters pull out this asinine BS...it makes the head spin. Don't get me wrong, I actually support carefully controlled hunting...I just don't like the complete BS hunters often use for reasoning.
Yes...let us all thank the hunters for their desperately needed population control...one shudders to think of what it was like before modern hunting, where nature had to manage itself. Armies of bears running amuck, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together...
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 9:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tu
quote:
Originally posted by Release
This is the very definition of a redneck: someone who hates education/information and insists against all reason and proof that they know better. "Darrr, dontchew tell me nuttin'.! I know better. I don't need no high brow edjimucation"
Nothing but babble about how, "nothing beats a gun", by people who admit they never had to use one in the situation we're talking about, in spite of the 20 years of combined result of actual attacks that say otherwise.
Nothing but irresponsible babble about how "making noise in the woods is just sounding the dinner bell for all the bears to come an get you", and so forth.
Go ahead and ban me. This is a joke forum populated by redneck jokers.
I have to say this is the funniest thing I've read here recently.
Let's not ban him - not that anyone really cares enough to ban this guy.
LOL. Lost in all the wild tangents, the fact is, Release did own his tormentors in this thread. Even got a full confession out of wildtrekker that this was nothing but a troll-plea-for-attention thread. He deserves immunity!
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 9:55 PM
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Originally posted by V1
quote:
Originally posted by Saltfactory
Bear bangers and bear spray have been proven to be more effective then guns for the average hiker and I don't think a lot of people even realise that.
I'm not an 'average hiker', I'd say I'm rather proficient with (safe and lawful - I feel the need to spell it out for you) firearms use. According to some criminology researches, as a firearm owner, I am FIVE times less likely to commit ANY crime than non-owner. So statistically you're 5 times more likely to be a hazard to the society than I'm to anyone else. 
Can you tell me what study you're getting this from? On a few occasions, I've looked at various gun related stats, but often find the results contradictory, and in many cases, either the methodology, or the conclusions (of either the authors or those using the study) invalid. This is an interesting statistic I'd like to know more about.
quote:
Originally posted by V1
I also carry an insurance of 5M liability for my whole family which covers all our legal hunting and shooting activities. It costs me ~$70 a YEAR.
How much is your car insurance costs a MONTH for (likely, maybe less) ONE M liablity?
Insurance companies ain't charities, so do the math and calculate how much more dangerous you are, from their standpoint, then driving compared to me (actually, four of us) shooting and hunting. 
No. NO. NO. Come on....that's completely irrational reasoning. I assume you know that. :-) It can help you win the war of rhetoric and hype, but.....
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Brentwood Bay, BC
215 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:14 PM
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Do you have the raw data from the BC Government or are you referring to the article and/or report from the Suzuki Foundation?
Assuming that you are referring to the article and possibly the report from the Suzuki Foundation (that can be found) it is irrelevant to your rebuttal as I was referring to primary data from the BC Government's reporting system and not what the article or the report's evaluation of that data.
You are basing your argument from a report about BC; that is why it matters. It is also why it matters that you have used information from Alberta to justify inaccuracies in a report about BC.
I read scientific studies for fun and had a good deal of experience with them from getting a BSC in Geography.
You have failed to provide any more data backing up your claims. You have made references to practices of the past that may or may not be relevant to today's world.
You have made assumptions about myself and from what I see others.
You are not worth my time.
You are a poor spokesperson for your cause.
only quoted text below
quote:
Originally posted by Release
quote:
I do not agree that your argument that the numbers provided by the reporting program support your point above.
Yeah well you didn't read it so who cares what you think?
quote:
Thank you for answering the question.
You're welcome. Staying on point and answering points/questions is more than any of the rest of you seem to be able to do.
quote:
Now can you please post scientific studies that show that Grizzly Bears or Black Bears are an endangered species in BC?
Why does it matter if it's only BC? I'm going to ignore the fact that you wouldn't know a scientific study if it slapped you in the face and I'll also ignore the fact that no matter what I present you're going to scoff just like you did with the last ( or any) data presented regarding bear spray or hunting or anything else. The only "evidence" any from your side has presented is a pathetic petition from hunters insisting that they are conservationists and demanding they still be allowed to hunt in any numbers they want.
Bears in BC are not endangered as yet because BC, Yukon and Alaska are the last places in North America that they are present in just enough numbers to avoid getting on the endangered list - which is an arbitrary number that isn't the end-all-be-all of the state of a species.
However as I pointed out to you before these bears used to roam all of North America from Florida to Alaska and have been wiped out in many areas and have been on the endangered list everywhere else ever since. Their numbers plummeted because of being hunted into that state just like the wolf and buffalo before them. Naturally you are incapable of recognizing the pattern here but that's what ignorant people do: ignore the obvious.
In other words while the numbers are still just high enough to keep them off the list in BC, the hunting of them is the very activity that caused them to be put on the list or wiped out entirely everywhere else in North America. Subsequently anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can see that hunting them for no good reason can produce the same result in BC unless of course you think you're somehow immune to the trend that has played out everywhere else in North America.
By the way most studies regarding the extinction of species like this don't draw borders between BC and the rest of the continent. Most describe them as being endangered all totaled for all of North America so I could contend you're before you even start by limiting your question to BC. That they remain off the list for now in BC is meaningless to me but I'm sure that's all you need to declare them perfectly safe so let's all go out and shoot one for no good reason (even if the reason is food). The trend is obvious: They were hunted to the point of near extinction everywhere else, which is why I'm against doing the same thing in BC, Yukon and Alaska. It's already a crime that BC is one of the last places on earth you can even find any in numbers. If you can't see that as a trend then I can't help you and by all means tell yourself there's nothing to worry about and they'll not go endangered in BC like they have everywhere else in North America.
In a nutshell: hunting for sport (no good reason at all) has wiped out or very nearly wiped out not only bears but wolves, buffalo and a dozen more species all over North America and it's only a matter of time that it happens in the last-to-get-populated areas like BC. Naturally you close your eyes tight and ignore this obvious pattern and even pretend it isnt' happening, and naturally will rationalize your behaviour (needless urge to kill animals minding their own business with no hope of escape) by claiming that since they aren't on the endangered list yet in BC that must mean hunting is not hurting their numbers at all and it could never ever happen in BC etc., etc., so let's all go out and shoot a few bears for no good reason at all. Pathetic.
What can I say? We disagree and always will. The difference is I have the reality of history and numbers backing me up and you have meaningless rationalizations.
But when the day comes,and it will, that the bears are endangered in BC what will you do? Admit you were completely utterly full of shit? So what? Doesn't do the bears any good now does it? But of course it's useless to ask someone who sees an animal minding it's own business and thinks to themselves, "Ewww! I just gotta shoot that thing! I just can't leave it alone!" to even pretend to care what happens to them. I wonder why you bother.
Oh right: because you're pretending to be a conservationist with every animal you kill. Forgot all about that rock-solid reasoning. lol!
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joker
You have failed to provide any more data backing up your claims.
Yeah well keep telling yourself that, I know I have and so do you. I have facts and you have rationalizations and a mere stubborn insistence that my information is wrong, and you just have to be right because you simply stamp your feet and say so. You have nothing else.
Fact is wave motion and human stupidity/belligerence are the two strongest, most destructive forces on Earth and it was a long time ago that I came to grips with the fact that I can't stop either of them.
Go ahead and keep killing animals for no good reason (including for food -- which isn't the same thing as killing them for survival which is the only good excuse). At the end of the day the only reason you have for killing them is the same as the only reason you have to keep on arguing: vanity and ego. That's what wiped them out everywhere else and that's what will wipe them out in B.C. as well. |
Edited by - Release on 05/03/2012 10:26 PM |
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canine loving, machete-toting bushwhacking lake seeker, Indiana Jones hat-wearing off-road 4x4 guru
Surrey Hole, BC
Canada
6783 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:36 PM
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Release
Are you vegeterian? Just asking, and nothing wrong with saying yes. |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:41 PM
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No I'm not. Since I'm not a vegetarian does that mean I'm a hypocrite because I don't want to see bears shot hunted for no good reason?
Of course not. That's why it's a stupid question, no offense.
Hunting for survival is not remotely the same thing as hunting for food in this day and age. Sorry. Especially if there's absolutely no end to alternative food sources.
And no I'm not a fan of the commercialized food industry nor am I happy that just about every animal we eat lived a life of torture before being tortured to death. That really doesn't have as much to do with the point at hand as I'm sure you are pretending to believe.
The bears are just sitting there minding their own business. All the excuses for shooting them are just that: lame excuses covering for the fact that they just get a perverse ego satisfaction from killing something completely defenseless and minding it's own business. The life of wild animals is hard enough as it is. The average squirrel with a litter is up against bigger challenges every day than any hunter ever faces. |
Edited by - Release on 05/03/2012 10:44 PM |
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Brentwood Bay, BC
215 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:44 PM
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| Good gravey this is over the top |
Edited by - joker on 05/03/2012 11:06 PM |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joker
quote:
Originally posted by Release
No I'm not. Since I'm not a vegetarian does that mean I'm a hypocrite because I don't want to see bears shot hunted for no good reason?
Of course not. That's why it's a stupid question, no offense.
Hunting for survival is not remotely the same thing as hunting for food in this day and age. Sorry. Especially if there's absolutely no end to alternative food sources.
And no I'm not a fan of the commercialized food industry nor am I happy that just about every animal we eat lived a life of torture before being tortured to death. That really doesn't have as much to do with the point at hand as I'm sure you are pretending to believe.
The bears are just sitting there minding their own business. All the excuses for shooting them are just that: lame excuses.
Quick reply here...
You really like to make assumptions.
So do you: like the assumption that if the bears aren't on the endangered list (in BC, at the moment) that must mean they're doing just fine and can be hunted all we want.
You're right joker: I am assuming his question has something - anything - to do with the conversation so far. Not much of an assumption really. Either it does or he's completely bonkers and just likes to blurt out random questions at any moment with no context at all.
My assumption was that he had a purpose or intelligent reason to ask the question. I guess you might be right: that might've been a silly assumption. |
Edited by - Release on 05/03/2012 10:49 PM |
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canine loving, machete-toting bushwhacking lake seeker, Indiana Jones hat-wearing off-road 4x4 guru
Surrey Hole, BC
Canada
6783 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:48 PM
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Hmm
I dont have any other questions or input at this time. |
Edited by - Aqua Terra on 05/03/2012 10:50 PM |
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Brentwood Bay, BC
215 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Release
So do you: like the assumption that if the bears aren't on the endangered list (in BC, at the moment) that must mean they're doing just fine and can be hunted all we want.
sigh...
nope I didn't make that assumption... i just asked you for some data
and you failed to do so |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2012 : 10:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joker
quote:
Originally posted by Release
So do you: like the assumption that if the bears aren't on the endangered list (in BC, at the moment) that must mean they're doing just fine and can be hunted all we want.
sigh...
nope I didn't make that assumption... i just asked you for some data
and you failed to do so
Oh I see, so you had no purpose in the conversation at all except to badger me for data that you planned to dismiss without even reading properly....but you don't do any of that because you had any kind of opposing view point or opinion? I see. Very interesting.
And yes I did give you the data you just don't know what you're looking at. |
Edited by - Release on 05/03/2012 10:51 PM |
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Topic |
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Packing Heat on the Trail
