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350 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 10:38 PM
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Nothing makes me feel better than a slung 12 ga. walking in the bush. I've never used bear spray before, though having a bear come within 5-8 meters to use it is a little too close to comfort for me.
Do you depend on the bear bells to warn the bears of a midday snack or do you pack a pole with a punch in bear country?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't shoot a bear, and ask questions later, but I do like a little safety net when tramping around in the forest( usually off the beaten path and not in National Parks for you uppitys :) ) |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
262 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 01:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wildtrekker
Nothing makes me feel better than a slung 12 ga. walking in the bush. I've never used bear spray before, though having a bear come within 5-8 meters to use it is a little too close to comfort for me.
Do you depend on the bear bells to warn the bears of a midday snack or do you pack a pole with a punch in bear country?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't shoot a bear, and ask questions later, but I do like a little safety net when tramping around in the forest( usually off the beaten path and not in National Parks for you uppitys :) )
If you do your research, spray was proven more effective in over 200 encounters of aggression vs 200 encounters where a gun was used in defence. Sorry but I can't remember the location of the study, it's linked somewhere in these forums.
Read "Grizzlies and White Guys" by Clayton Mack who is probably one of the North's most prolific grizzly hunting guides, who describes how many times he'd shoot a charging bear only to be knocked down and saved by a second hunter shooting. He switched to spray in his old age, not only out of compassion.
Or watch The Edge of Eden: Living With Grizzlies and see someone confidently spray a large grizz in the face at 3 feet and casually go about his business as the bear took off as fast as it could go. |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
797 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 04:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wildtrekker
Nothing makes me feel better than a slung 12 ga. walking in the bush. I've never used bear spray before, though having a bear come within 5-8 meters to use it is a little too close to comfort for me.
Having a bear come in 5-8m is too close for comfort for you? So you would just shoot it with your 12 ga. at 10m in self-defence then?
That's great. How manly. |
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Penhold, Alberta
Canada
2009 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 07:14 AM
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I don't see the need to pack a gun of any kind as long as I have my can of bear spray. Like the OP, I tend to hike the more remote and less frequented trails and so far have only pulled my bear spray once when I stumbled upon a grizzly about 15-20 ft. away.
I guess it boils down to how much confidence each person has in thier ability to deal with the prospect of having an encounter. Be more aware of signs along the trail and if you see a lot of scat around, make a little extra noise to let a bear know you are around.
What ever floats your boat though I suppose. Oh, as far as bear bells, never wear them! They are trinkets for the touron crowd. |
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153 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 07:36 AM
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Never carried bear spray. Never carried a gun. I inherited my bear bell from my grandfather. Never had a close encounter with a bear. Never. P. S. Not a touron.
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 07:58 AM
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I enjoy getting out in the shoulder seasons, and as such, have had quite a few bear encounters. Only one of them was aggressive in any way (that involved another person and her loose dog).
I find in the more remote areas in the Rockies that bears are very shy. Front country bears become habituated to people and I'm much more concerned about them. The trick is not to surprise them. Those little bear bells are a joke. When moving in low visibility areas (dense timber) you need to make some real noise, especially when coming to bends in the trail. Be aware of noise created by running water that can also mask your own sounds. |
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972 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 08:35 AM
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| if you have to carry a gun into the backcountry when you are NOT HUNTING,then you are not a man, my pigtailed little friend. |
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1058 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 08:58 AM
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| Do you pack heat in urban areas for your safety as well? |
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505 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 09:25 AM
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Boewen and Mmcan84 I'm interested to know why you are suggesting that someone would be less of a man for packing a gun for protection? or not letting a bear come within 5-8m? I personaly carry pepper spray when hiking, but see nothing wrong with carrying a firearms if someone chooses to. If someone decides to use whatever protection they have at their disposal I believe that makes them smart not any less manly,or have you two just bought into the newage anti gun mindset that has been so effectivly propelled by the media.
Here is an exerpt from a bear safety manual suggesting the proper course of action in case of a charging bear.
"If you have a firearm, use it to save your life if needed and only if you are truly in serious danger (not just a bluff charge). If it comes down to it use the weapon if you know how to use it properly. If you must shoot a bear, wait until it is close (30 or 40 feet at most), and aim for the low neck or head area. If you injure or kill the bear, be certain to report the encounter to the proper authorities."
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3022 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 09:33 AM
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Guns make good sound-signalling-devices when unlighted P.W.C.'s approach your canoe at high speed @ night.
Good for loosening up AVI slopes too. |
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90 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 10:25 AM
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I lived and hiked in Alaska and Yukon for nearly 20 years, and I've had a lot of bear encounters because I make no effort to make noise--I like to see them. So, I've even surprised a few bears at point-blank range. Fortunately, no mommas with cubs. In all my encounters I only had one, black bear, come after me and make me really worry.
I formerly carried a bush gun, .45-70 government (damn heavy), but after seeing video of a ranger at Admiralty Island turn a bear by merely raising the spray can (bear had been hit before), and considering that in my scary encounters a scuffle was more likely than an aimed shot, I figured that at least I could fire the can from the hip if need be. So I switched to the can.
When I started carrying the can, I morphed my MA experience into a training routine. Everytime I heard a rustle, a crash, an unfamiliar unexpected noise, before wasting time to see what it was, I yanked the holster open and drew the can. I keep the can lined up so that my hand and finger sets just right on it, to shear off the guard and fire.
I've drawn on a lot of grouse, drawn on a moose, drawn on a mountain biker (he was miffed), and of course drawn on dogs. This is mostly down here.
Anyway, I ramble, but I have more confidence in my spray than I did the rifle. Oh, you prefer the can if you're in your tent, too.
Alternatively, one could carry a sidearm of sufficient caliber. Uhh, no, that's right, we're in Canada now. NM.
Edit: Oh, I get a new can every year, and test fire the old can. This reminds me of the effective range. You have got to cultivate the guts to hold your fire until the bear's snout is within 6 feet. |
Edited by - Ricter on 02/26/2011 10:34 AM |
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3022 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 11:10 AM
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quote >..."Edit: Oh, I get a new can every year, and test fire the old can. This reminds me of the effective range. You have got to cultivate the guts to hold your fire until the bear's snout is within 6 feet."...
I keep my older cannisters ; they still work very well, even the 1999 expiry dates.
Only thing I used it on are garden- invading raccoons , they never ever return ; and have needed on more than one occassion on charging teeth-bared dogs.
As a note > it takes a full 8 seconds to succumb a Rottweiler.
A bear that IS Intent , and capable of tearing thru wasps nests for food , is unlikely to be detered by spray. I think it is the Sound of the released spray that startles the curiously close bear.
With a gun , fear factor is gone , and you need only to talk to the bear, it will turn & leave. No shot required.
[ if you need to shoot , use Park's Dept style plastic 000-shot. It stings and nonlethal.
I believe that people with chainsaws are scarier than people with guns ! ] |
Edited by - cambium on 02/26/2011 11:15 AM |
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90 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 11:37 AM
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I keep a couple of old cans, throw them in the trunk, but after a couple of decades I can't see having that much explosive behind me. ; )
Fear is a subjective thing. You feel less with a gun because it can solve the problem of the intent bear. I agree. Strongly goal directed bears, like a momma defending cubs, or a person, can work through the spray. But so can they work through a gunshot if it's not instantly lethal. Tradeoffs. I trained in MA for 25 years, constantly imagining new scenarios and training to deal with them. One day after chasing off a drunk I realized that 99 out of 100 problems were going to be drunks. The cold sober guy with 25 years of weapon training coming after me to kill was a very far-fetched encounter indeed.
Similarly, such bears. Of all bears in your area, most are not seen. Of those that are seen most run away. Of those that don't, a small percentage charge. A small percentage of those are not bluffing. See what I mean? : ) |
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Squamish, British Columbia
Canada
1008 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 12:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by weegit
Or watch The Edge of Eden: Living With Grizzlies and see someone confidently spray a large grizz in the face at 3 feet and casually go about his business as the bear took off as fast as it could go.
Thanks for the recommendation. Going to give it a watch. Curiously it's also set in an area of Russia I've been researching recently as a future expedition location.
Anyway, on topic. The OP worded his post like troll bait, complete with the signature smiley, which is why I find it odd that people are taking it and getting their knickers in a knot.
Personally, I bring other hikers with me that I'm fairly confident I can run faster than.  |
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Victoria, British Columbia
Canada
1762 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 12:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by leimrod
quote:
Originally posted by weegit
Or watch The Edge of Eden: Living With Grizzlies and see someone confidently spray a large grizz in the face at 3 feet and casually go about his business as the bear took off as fast as it could go.
Thanks for the recommendation. Going to give it a watch. Curiously it's also set in an area of Russia I've been researching recently as a future expedition location.
Anyway, on topic. The OP worded his post like troll bait, complete with the signature smiley, which is why I find it odd that people are taking it and getting their knickers in a knot.
Personally, I bring other hikers with me that I'm fairly confident I can run faster than.
I agree, troll.
Also, let's have some sprints :) I smell a challenge in your last post.
One set in snowshoes.
One set in crampons.
One set in summer hikers of choice. Best of three. |
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North Vancouver, British Columbia
Canada
122 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 1:48 PM
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| Troll? I just assumed they were from Abbotsford |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
797 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 4:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by paulyman
Boewen and Mmcan84 I'm interested to know why you are suggesting that someone would be less of a man for packing a gun for protection? or not letting a bear come within 5-8m? I personaly carry pepper spray when hiking, but see nothing wrong with carrying a firearms if someone chooses to. If someone decides to use whatever protection they have at their disposal I believe that makes them smart not any less manly,or have you two just bought into the newage anti gun mindset that has been so effectivly propelled by the media.
I had a problem with him saying he didn't want to wait until the bear was 5-8m away to use bear spray. Implying that he would get out his gun for self defence and use it on a bear at a distance greater than this...which is lame.
You going to round the corner, surprise a bear, who then gets a bit defensive and huffs at you, and shoot it? If you want to play around in bear country you should be willing to take the risk that a bear might bluff charge you, and I don't think a bear deserves to die for that.
By all means carry a gun with you if you are brave enough to wait and find out if it's a bluff charge or not. I excpect very few would if they had their gun out and ready in that situation and i'm sure a number of bears are unnecessarily killed by hunters in 'self-defence'.
Ironically...I went clay pigeon shooting for the first time in my life today. It was fun! |
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Calgary, Alberta
Canada
226 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 4:31 PM
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Hmmm - who would rather know was within 100 meters of you, unseen in the woods - a bear or some dude with a gun?
I'll take the bear.
Happy Trails |
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972 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 4:42 PM
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personally mr.troll and paulyman....there are way more humans than bears on this earth.
my mindset is that if i go out and i run into and bear and it attacks and kills me,then so be it,one less human to screw this earth up.
think about it from the animals point of view,we are on their land. we've taken away enough of their land and we dont need to be carrying guns and killing more of them just because we want to hike through there territory,even if it means us losing our life.
it takes alot more work for bears to revive their population than it does for us "how many" billion people to pump out another million babies. |
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Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada
1306 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 5:08 PM
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Ironically...I went clay pigeon shooting for the first time in my life today. It was fun!
[/quote]Originally posted by booewen
Was that clay pigeon just bluff charging? Did it really have to die? |
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Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada
1306 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 5:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cambium
Guns make good sound-signalling-devices when unlighted P.W.C.'s approach your canoe at high speed @ night.
Good for loosening up AVI slopes too.
Sound will not make an avalanche ready slope release, so unless your gun is a rocket launcher, it won't help. |
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Packing Heat on the Trail
