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mackenzie, BC
Canada
187 Posts |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1606 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2011 : 4:54 PM
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I use a Steripen Journey in conjunction with a MSR MiniWorks EX. I pack chlorine dioxide (Katadyn) tablets in case one of those pieces of equipment fails.
Re: "no ceramic filters to break" for the First Need XL.
It looks like it still needs a filter and it's not cheap at $58.
If their claims are true and they can remove viruses without chemicals or UV, this is a very exciting product. I'm still skeptical and will be looking into it in more detail. It sounds way too good to be true.
Looking at their filter system:
1) "Ultrafine Microstraining places an ultra-fine protective barrier between you and water-borne bacteria, cysts and larger particles"
* This sounds like your typical ceramic filter.
2) "Molecular Capture traps and holds organic and specific other chemicals such as pesticides, herbicides and solvents as well as chlorine and other trace contaminates that can produce foul tastes and odors"
*This sounds like your typical carbon filter (such as the one that is built into the MSR Marathon EX Ceramic Element.)
3) "Electrostatic Removal uses specially produced space-age surfaces, much like magnets, to remove minute particles and colloids suspended in the water."
*They still haven't mentioned anything about viruses. Is this the stage that takes care of viruses? Wasn't the 1960s the space-age? This sounds sketchy.
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Edited by - Steventy on 02/13/2011 4:58 PM |
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660 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2011 : 5:32 PM
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I'm also suspicious about the claims of the First Need product. It does just sound like a filter with a carbon pack, which is NOT reliable for all viruses. 0.1 micron is the standard, but that is nominal. 0.4 absolute is not very good. The better ones are .2 micron absolute.
In addition the pump looks like it is a push/pull design which is awkward and often fragile, and just look at the type of place the carries it!
BTW, although the filters do not reliably remove all viruses, any that do get through are free-floating and not protected by being inside particulates and so very vulnerable to a very low dose of chemical. There are few to no viruses to worry about about in backcountry areas, so I like filters, and when traveling where viruses are more of a concern I add a very low dose of chemical after filtering. |
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Say Nuth Khaw Yum, British Columbia
Canada
418 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2011 : 10:11 PM
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I use a Steri-Pen Adventurer, and it works great for me.
I don't use a filter with it, if the water has a lot of particles in it I filter it through my shirt or whatever.
As far as the issues you raised, it does not need a lot of spare batteries, one extra would be sufficient for almost any trip. Typically I don't bother though, the battery life is very long. I don't use a backup system. Never had a problem. I talked to my father in law about it who is a water treatment engineer and he says the UV is just as effective as chlorine, and either would fail under the same conditions - ie: if the Steri-Pen wouldn't work neither would the tablets. Usually people use the secondary treatment (like they do at the Seymour-Capilano Filtration Plant) because chlorine is tried and true, although that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because I use the UV so I don't have to drink chlorine.
The only issue I would raise with it is sometimes it can be a bit finicky to get going if you aren't used to it. Once I figured it out that hasn't really been an issue though, and I think they have fixed that on the newer models anyway. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1606 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2011 : 10:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Conroy
I use a Steri-Pen Adventurer, and it works great for me.
I don't use a filter with it, if the water has a lot of particles in it I filter it through my shirt or whatever.
As far as the issues you raised, it does not need a lot of spare batteries, one extra would be sufficient for almost any trip. Typically I don't bother though, the battery life is very long. I don't use a backup system. Never had a problem. I talked to my father in law about it who is a water treatment engineer and he says the UV is just as effective as chlorine, and either would fail under the same conditions - ie: if the Steri-Pen wouldn't work neither would the tablets. Usually people use the secondary treatment (like they do at the Seymour-Capilano Filtration Plant) because chlorine is tried and true, although that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because I use the UV so I don't have to drink chlorine.
The only issue I would raise with it is sometimes it can be a bit finicky to get going if you aren't used to it. Once I figured it out that hasn't really been an issue though, and I think they have fixed that on the newer models anyway.
For the Journey, I usually just carry one or two sets of spare batteries. They are lithium and are light (but a little expensive.) The device is fairly reliable but I think it can be finicky when it gets cold. If it broke, I would go back to the store and buy another one; I am definitely happy with it. As I mentioned above, I prefilter with a ceramic filter so my water is very clean.
One thing to remember if you are only using UV, and you are paranoid, is that it will only kill the bad stuff in a continuous body of water. If you have drops of water on the inside of the neck/top of the lid, etc. that are above the water line, they go untreated. A few simple things can help with this:
- Fill the bottle as high as possible before treating so that when you put the device in, water spills over the top. That eliminates the possibility of rogue water drops on the inside of the bottle neck.
- Wipe/blow off water drops around the outside of the neck.
- After treatment, swoosh the bottle around a little so that some of the clean water rinses the outside of the neck. You can also rinse off the inside of the lid if untreated water got onto the lid.
- Treating twice is an option. Between treatments you can put the lid on and gently invert the bottle to dilute any water that was clinging to the inside of the neck/lid. I say gently invert because a rapid shaking will add a lot of air bubbles which will minimize the effectiveness of the second treatment. I might be the only person in the world that does this. |
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mackenzie, BC
Canada
187 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2011 : 03:29 AM
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Thanks for the comments!
I think I'll go with the Steripen with 1 set of extra batteries and back-up chlorine tabs. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1606 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2011 : 04:03 AM
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Note that there are some interesting differences between tablets. Based on the bit of research I did, Chlorine Dioxide tablets were better than Chlorine tablets.
It's always good to have some simple prefiltering (even if it is just your bandanna.)
"If the water is cloudy or filled with large particles, strain it, using a cloth, before treatment. Large particles, if swallowed, may be purified only "on the outside.""
http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/manual/water.shtml
This is especially true for UV; It can't do anything to penetrate particles.
You've got me curious about the First Need XL so I have contacted them with a request for more information on how it gets rid of viruses. I'll post if they get back to me.
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mackenzie, BC
Canada
187 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 07:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steventy
Note that there are some interesting differences between tablets. Based on the bit of research I did, Chlorine Dioxide tablets were better than Chlorine tablets.
It's always good to have some simple prefiltering (even if it is just your bandanna.)
The Steripen "Classic" has a pre-filter for wide-wouth Nalgene 1 liter containers. Not sure about the new "Adventurer". Doesn't look like it. I wonder why you can't buy it seperately??
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442624776&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302696689
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Edited by - dougz on 03/17/2011 07:54 AM |
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34 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 7:27 PM
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| I have the first generation Steri Adventurer, and sent it back to the manuf. for free upgrade (it wouldn’t always turn on if the water was real clear and cold). Now it works like a charm and I’ve had no issues. I run lithium batteries and they last a long time. I’m filtering No Cascade water that is cold and clear anyway, so I’m not worried about the turbid water problems the Steri has. It’s a winner for me, and that’s all I care about. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1606 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 9:37 PM
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A bit of followup. I had contacted General Ecology and they sent me some research papers that show that their filters can actually remove viruses.
It seems like it is still early days for this technology. I'd like to see some tests that show how it performs over time once the filter gets dirty and that do the tests with a wider range of viruses. I'm also not sure how robust the filter is (can it survive freezing?)
That said, this is exciting. A downside of filters has always been that they are ineffective against viruses. I look forward to the day when this technology exists in a wider range of filters. |
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Maple Ridge, BC
Canada
344 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 02:23 AM
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| I always find it hard to give feedback on this sort of stuff. I drank from streams without these products and with them and had the same rate of not getting sick. Negative evidence is not really evidence, so I don't know what to say. Steripen is what I use though. |
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Happy-Valley Goose bay, NFLD
Canada
32 Posts |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
41 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 3:08 PM
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As far as batteries go, have a look at http://www.batteryjunction.com/ - get CR123's for $1.40 each. Takes the sting out of it.
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2012 : 06:30 AM
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Has anybody tried the new Camelbak All Clear Water UV system?
I always worried about breaking the Steripen bulb, but the Camelbak has it up in the lid. Rechargable battery good for 80 l.
I ordered one - will write a review when I get it. |
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First Need XL or Steripen?
