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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 09:49 AM
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" quote:Originally posted by Release
3. I do value human life over a dogs life, but let's face it: there's 6 billion of us and maybe there are a dozen or so of us who are as brave or loyal as a dog. The majority of us spend our lives making ourselves and those around us miserable. I can think of a couple dozen people off the top of my head I'd rather see dead than my dog. That's not very nice, maybe even a little short sighted but it's how I honestly feel.
Seriously?
The majority of people spend their lives making people miserable? I don't know where you live, but if that's what you're used to... stay there, I guess. The rest of us in the world where this is not a norm don't need you changing things."
Yawwwn. Um how can I best sum this up: bullsh!t. I've lived all over Canada and in many parts of the world and yes, in general people are right bastards. Sorry but it's true. Further this is kind of a philosophical mainstay, so frankly the idea isn't some quark emitting from me, but rather from some of the best minds humanity has ever created: the idea that we make our own hell by the way we treat ourselves and others is a very widespread topic. If you feel you can dismiss this as something I came up with and am alone in thinking then all the power to you. Besides your response here only addresses a side note and not my main point. Try addressing that instead.
I mean here we are on a forum arguing with each other and attacking each other over little more than pride and you're going to sit there -- telling me to stay wherever I am -- and deny that people are miserable to each other? lol. Thanks for proving my point. |
Edited by - Release on 02/01/2011 09:56 AM |
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505 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 09:57 AM
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Look at their homepage they even state they are a managment reputation company.
Oh looky here,I even can provide a link. http://www.newswire.ca/en/Media%20Intelligence.cgi
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
quote:
Originally posted by paulyman
CNW, which is the company that published the article that Marc posted is a reputation managment company.When shit hits the fan they're the company you want to have in your corner to bullshit to the public to save corporate image.The statement prepared by CNW looks more like a dance around the truth than a statement.
Actually CNW is, Canada Newswire, and have nothing to do with "reputation management". They're a newswire service, if you've ever heard the phrase, "getting the news off the wire", CNW would be the guys (in part) that put it "on the wire".
They work between companies and the media, and are solely involved in the distribution, and editing of the releases. Companies write them, they edit them and then forward them on to various media outlets (tv stations, radio, newspapers, etc.), online databases, etc.
I know this cause they're my employers largest competitor.
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Edited by - paulyman on 02/01/2011 10:03 AM |
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Vancouver, British Columbia
Canada
558 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 10:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Release
"And THAT is the type of attitude that will ensure that such hypocrisy never changes."
Dru it's not my attitude that ensures this will never change, it's the human condition. Please don't pretend there isn't a life you value more than another, becasue that's the core cause.
In other words a few self-rightous easily written posts by you don't actually absolve you of this very human behaviour and really they only kind of make a hypocrite out of you as you pretend no one cares about children like you do.
Actually that was me, not Dru.
I never wrote anything about my own values or my behaviour, but I am certainly not trying to suggest I am some kind of perfect example to be emulated.
What I did actually write was that the continuance of the type of fatalism exhibited in your post ensures that the hypocrisy you point out will also continue. You cannot pass it off as the "human condition". People CHOOSE to get outraged about (real) atrocities committed against cute animals, and they CHOOSE to ignore the very real suffering going on right now within our own human communities.
My point is that such attitudes are perfectly susceptible to change, and that we should hope that they do, one day, change. |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 10:05 AM
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"You cannot pass it off as the "human condition"."
Sure I can. Since this is the way since forever there's really little other conclusion to come to. I'm not understanding why you think making choices has nothing to do with the human condition.
"and they CHOOSE to ignore the very real suffering going on right now within our own human communities."
That's actually not what happens imo. Caring about human suffering - really caring and trying todo something about it - takes incredible toll on a person and our *human condition* often forces us to defend ourselves emotionally from it, causinfg us to insulate us from it by ignoring it. This is actually a pretty well known phenomenon with people. |
Edited by - Release on 02/01/2011 10:09 AM |
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Vancouver, British Columbia
Canada
558 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 10:20 AM
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To me "human condition" implies that we cannot change our attitudes, choices, etc. Let's hope you are wrong on that point, otherwise what's the point of striving for anything different?
You may be right about ignoring human suffering as an emotional self-defence mechanism, I don't know. However, it is a CHOICE that people make, whether it is in the name of "emotional self-defence" or otherwise. If it is not a choice that we exercise, for whatever reason, then what exactly is that happens? |
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 map hatin', coffee perc totin', garbage collectin', backpacking, action hero wannabe, who loves to hide out in Garibaldi park and will have his scouts sing if you keep him awake at night
2467 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 10:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by paulyman
Look at their homepage they even state they are a managment reputation company.
Oh looky here,I even can provide a link. http://www.newswire.ca/en/Media%20Intelligence.cgi
lol! Seriously paulyman, what you're looking at is a product tool of theirs. It allows companies to monitor social media sites, blogs, etc. to see how people are talking about them, and what they're saying. They're providing a tool to their clients to help them target their audience with directed responses to what people are saying about them online.
As Social Media becomes more of a big thing (a company's twitter feed can now be one of their most successful PR tools), CNW and my company Marketwire, are providing tools to help companies "manage" their online reputations.
So, yes they are a "management reputation company", but not in the way I think you mean. Again, they provide the tools and the means but not the actual releases that go out.
Seriously, I'm an "insider" in this industry and the link you provided and the term isn't meant in the way I think you mean it.
Anyways this is a seperate conversation than what this thread is about so I'm going to leave it at that. |
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663 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 10:41 AM
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You're both right! CNW just carries the release. http://www.hoggan.com/services are the public relations experts spin doctors that craft such releases. |
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505 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 10:48 AM
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Whether or not they create the release or someone else does is pointless to debate.If an electrical contracting company hires another company to install sounds equipment the electrical contracting company now becomes a audio installation company as well because they provide that service. Besides,It's weel known that corporations lie to protect their bottom line usualy, so let's face it, regardless if they ordered the killings or not they are going to put their best foot forward to the media......right?quote:
Originally posted by Marc
quote:
Originally posted by paulyman
Look at their homepage they even state they are a managment reputation company.
Oh looky here,I even can provide a link. http://www.newswire.ca/en/Media%20Intelligence.cgi
lol! Seriously paulyman, what you're looking at is a product tool of theirs. It allows companies to monitor social media sites, blogs, etc. to see how people are talking about them, and what they're saying. They're providing a tool to their clients to help them target their audience with directed responses to what people are saying about them online.
As Social Media becomes more of a big thing (a company's twitter feed can now be one of their most successful PR tools), CNW and my company Marketwire, are providing tools to help companies "manage" their online reputations.
So, yes they are a "management reputation company", but not in the way I think you mean. Again, they provide the tools and the means but not the actual releases that go out.
Seriously, I'm an "insider" in this industry and the link you provided and the term isn't meant in the way I think you mean it.
Anyways this is a seperate conversation than what this thread is about so I'm going to leave it at that.
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 11:36 AM
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"To me "human condition" implies that we cannot change our attitudes, choices, etc. Let's hope you are wrong on that point, otherwise what's the point of striving for anything different?"
Well that's an okay definition but imo the "human condition" is simply a long list of weaknesses that cause many of our attitudes and choices. However one of the major human conditions is duality, believing and feeling two contradictory things at once, and striving for something better is one of the things I would list as a positive result of the human condition.
Anyways we're latching onto what I freely admit is the most 'rant-like' part of my post. I do believeit, and I do count myself as part of it, but it shouldn't be exaggerated to mean that humans have no 'good' side at all. I don't believe that. |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 12:02 PM
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| A positive step might be to simply require businesses who use animals for entertainment purposes be required to take out insurance to cover contingencies such as this. |
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| Engor
Intermediate Member
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Calgary
840 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 12:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Release
" quote:Originally posted by Release
Yawwwn. Um how can I best sum this up: bullsh!t. I've lived all over Canada and in many parts of the world and yes, in general people are right bastards. Sorry but it's true. Further this is kind of a philosophical mainstay, so frankly the idea isn't some quark emitting from me, but rather from some of the best minds humanity has ever created: the idea that we make our own hell by the way we treat ourselves and others is a very widespread topic.
I feel sorry for you. What kind of "philosophical mainstray" you are referring to? Homo homini lupus est? That was challenged in the same period when expressed. Most philosophers agree that the man shares some hidden evil or aggressive impulses or drives. Christianity calls it "original sin", psychology and philosophy uses different terms but most agree that most humans are good in overcoming those evil impulses. |
Edited by - Engor on 02/01/2011 12:38 PM |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1542 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 12:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mick range
quote:
Originally posted by slothboy
They should have shipped them live to asia and killed them there in secret. Canadians are not strong enough to have knowledge of the real world.
Weak, aren't you better than that?
The second part of what slothboy said has some truth to it. We are very sheltered from what goes on in other parts of the world. If this had been done in China, rather than expressing shock and disgust, people would be lining up for the meat. |
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 1:00 PM
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Engor: "I feel sorry for you."
You're really only proving my point by lashing out from a position of brittle, hypocritical pride with this vain attempt to hurt me while trying to position yourself morally as spearate or even above me, when frankly neither of us know each other. I mean you're probably a nice person and yet you really can't resist being miserable to me, something that if successful would only serve to make both of us miserable. You couldn't wait. IMO you've only given credence to this:
"The majority of us spend our lives making ourselves and those around us miserable."
Engor: "Christianity calls it "original sin", psychology and philosophy uses different terms but most agree that most humans are good in overcoming those evil impulses."
I see. So you feel sorry for me because I don't agree 100% with what you consider to be what "most" psychology and philosophies? Yet in doing so you inherently point out that many in that field aren't so sure? I can live with that. Have a nice life. |
Edited by - Release on 02/01/2011 1:08 PM |
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| Engor
Intermediate Member
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Calgary
840 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 1:41 PM
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Oh, man. You have a wrong picture of the world. You see other people trying to "lash out", "hurt me", "position ... morally above me", "being miserable to me" etc, while I only pointed out to the fact that your point about "philosophical mainstay" is not true. You have a very bleak picture of the world and you interpret others according to your preconceived set of beliefs.
We all have different worldviews and beliefs. You have the right to express yours as everyone else does. But it is your opinion of the man, not the one of "philosophical mainstay".
quote:
Originally posted by Release
Engor: "I feel sorry for you."
You're really only proving my point by lashing out from a position of brittle, hypocritical pride with this vain attempt to hurt me while trying to position yourself morally as spearate or even above me, when frankly neither of us know each other. I mean you're probably a nice person and yet you really can't resist being miserable to me, something that if successful would only serve to make both of us miserable. You couldn't wait. IMO you've only given credence to this:
"The majority of us spend our lives making ourselves and those around us miserable."
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Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
253 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 1:53 PM
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"You have a very bleak picture of the world and you interpret others according to your preconceived set of beliefs."
Not quite. I think you misinturpret an acceptance of what I consider it is to be human with a condemnation of humans. This isn't what I feel. You mentioned Christianity, well Jesus said similar things about humans but had sympathy for all people anyways. He mentions once or twice having sympathy for those who cause others misery. I feel the same way. A lot of the misery people cause for themselves and others is not something we're smart enough to avoid. It doesn't mean the world sucks, it means the world is not paradise and we generally have little to blame but ourselves.
Who was it that said the world is a beautiful place if it weren't for the people? I knida agree insomuch as really the only ugly things in this world seem to come from people.
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Newton, bc
Canada
282 Posts |
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24 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 4:54 PM
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quote:
The second part of what slothboy said has some truth to it. We are very sheltered from what goes on in other parts of the world. If this had been done in China, rather than expressing shock and disgust, people would be lining up for the meat.
If that were entirely true, it would be reason number 412 not to live in China.
quote:
Personally - if you want to get outraged about some inopportune deaths, read the latest report from Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond. 21 preventable infant deaths, caused by government indifference. Yet public interest is much less than these dog deaths. Not saying you can't be outraged over both, but the proportional level delivered to each on CT seems out of balance to me.
The reason for the imbalance in outrage is that the topic of the discussion here is about sled dog murders, not governments hacking up babies. I have a hunch if you started a topic about that, you'd get an adequate supply of outrage in the porportion you expect. |
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North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1607 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 5:51 PM
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What's making people angrier?
1) That a commercial entertainment operation was allowed to grow dogs like livestock and put them down when it was no longer economically feasible to keep them alive?
We do this all the time for food. The difference here is that dog sledding (in this context) is for entertainment.
2) That the execution of these animals was done in such an inhumane way? I think it's important to remember that the intention was to put down the animals humanely. My understanding is that the method (gun shot) can be fast and painless when done properly. However, it has a smaller margin of error than other methods and due to the complexity, volume, and possibly skills/planning, this particular execution was grossly botched and became inhumane.
I'm split between the two but if we dealt with the first problem, the second wouldn't exist. I think they can both be dealt with through simple regulations and I hope that is done.
I believe the individual is genuinely suffering and I don't see a need to put him through any more.
If the company was obeying the regulations, I would ask that they make a big fat donation to the SPCA and that they take the lead on developing new regulations.
*Edited to remove my comments about dog meat in Asia since that is not the purpose of this thread and I don't actually have any interest in getting into that debate. |
Edited by - Steventy on 02/01/2011 7:02 PM |
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 | Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 6:06 PM
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quote:
As for various comments about Asia; many of them could be quite offensive and are sweeping generalizations.
Dog meat is most commonly consumed in Asia, particularly China and Korea as well as parts of Africa and Switzerland. If this thread was about horses instead of dogs, rest assured France would be mentioned. |
Edited by - Dru on 02/01/2011 6:07 PM |
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canine loving, machete-toting bushwhacking lake seeker, Indiana Jones hat-wearing off-road 4x4 guru
Surrey Hole, BC
Canada
6792 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 6:22 PM
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It is true that cruel death to many animals occur daily in all parts of the world, and we often dont hear about it. Much like the ongoing poaching and medicinal raping of many species,including right here. Humans are bit F'd and selfish in that department as well. Hoping this will ease off as we move forward in time.It is a bit different when it happens in a growing world class resort in a country that is still in the spotlight.
Still wondering about Soo Valley, I imagine this road is not plowed and would be impossible to acess with trucks in April?
How do you transport this many dogs into the (Whistler)back country and fire off that many rounds? without being investigated?
You obviously need a big machine to dig a pit, this would have taken some time for sure.
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100 sled dogs murdered over money in Whistler
