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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
2081 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:43 AM
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My wife and I booked the Skoki Loop for a three night leisurely backpack beginning Sunday evening. We headed up the access road and started to look for the summer trail above Temple Lodge. I've only skied this area, and wasn't familiar with where to go in the summer.
I found the summer trail, and my wife was about 10M downslope of me when we heard a giant commotion in the trees. We were standing in the meadow, which is a ski run in the winter.
Seconds later a dog comes bursting out of the trees with a grizzly bear one step behind it. Both are headed straight for me, perhaps 10M away. I swing my back towards them and brace for some sort of impact. The dog turns on a dime and races back up the trail, presumably back to its owner. The bear turns just as fast and takes chase back to the trees.
My wife is terrified and I slowly work my way towards her, not wanting to run, in case the bear comes back. She is having a hard time not breaking into a full run. Sure enough, the bear comes barreling back into the meadow, this time with no dog. We're close together now and stand our ground, making a lot of noise. The bear looks very confused, stops, the look now seems a little scared, and she tears back into the trees, via the trail, in a run.
A few moments later a woman comes racing out, screaming her head off.
She tells us that her and her dog came across the sow and two cubs. The dog and the bear got into it, with the dog taking off down the trail. Eventually, the bear came racing back, went right by her, and returned to her cubs. The woman had a can of bear spray, and had tried to spray the bear, but couldn't figure out how to get the trigger guard off.
Thank god she didn't. This poor bear was out with her cubs and came upon a stupid dog that looked like a threat to her little ones. She was just keeping her family safe and sure didn't deserve a pepper-spraying.
I wanted to take the spray away and use it on the woman and her facking dog. Dogs are not wild animals, and do nothing more than aggravate all kinds of animals going about their business. Bears, elk, porcupines, whatever.
I reported the bear incident to Banff Dispatch and hopefully there are no more encounters. That is a heavily used trail, and I'd hate to see the bear relocated or destroyed.
This was my wife's first bear encounter, and she was seriously freaked. With the bear being up-trail from us, we decided to bail on our backpack.
The next day we day-hiked to the Bow Hut and faffed about in the 26C weather. But, as we headed up the "tourist trail" to Bow Falls (the access to to the hut breaks off at the first canyon) I noticed that almost everyone had a facking dog! What the hell is with this? People can't go anywhere without their stupid dogs? |
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Hither & Yon, Alberta (usually)
Canada
1030 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:56 AM
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Dear God! What a way for your wife to have her first exposure to a bear!!! Now she'll be terrified for the rest of her life every time she goes hiking!
Actually, I would have been freaking out, too. With that little warning, you don't have much time to react - 'bracing for impact' is different from responding properly.
I think dogs have no place in the National Parks unless they're on a leash, per the rules that are posted. If you could have gotten her name, maybe Parks Canada could have given her a fine. Or do they actually do that?
How come people think that the rules for dogs don't apply to them, or only apply at campgrounds or tourist sites where there are Parks staff around to keep an eye on them? |
Edited by - peter1955 on 07/28/2010 07:59 AM |
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rockies, alberta
Canada
56 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:04 AM
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Holy Sh*t!!! I'm glad that ended as well as it did! How long before your heart stopped racing???  |
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Hope, B.C.
Canada
554 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:07 AM
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Wow! That is one hell of a scary story and you are lucky to have not become the center of the bears attention when it happened upon you two. This is a serious problem as there are seemingly more and more dogs in the backcountry these days. I totally sympathize with your situation. Seeing dogs on or off the trail in the mountains almost always takes away from some level of the peace and solitude that I seek in the mountains. Sorry doggy lovers, but not everyone loves your dog as much as you do, and in this case the lack of consideration could have cost two people their lives.  |
Edited by - Just B on 07/28/2010 08:11 AM |
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
5029 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:10 AM
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Yaaaay....good to hear dumb fuck owners are still giving themselves a bad name. I would have lost it on that dumb bitch.
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maybe Parks Canada could have given her a fine. Or do they actually do that?
Yes.
I don't understand what's so hard to comprehend about leashing the dogs in the parks.
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'bracing for impact' is different from responding properly.
Please do tell what the blanket proper reaction is when you think you are about to get slammed into without notice or time. What would you have done with no time to respond?? Please educate every one. |
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Jasper, ab
Canada
712 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:11 AM
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| Wow. That was close. I'm glad you two are OK. There are big fines for having your dog off leash in the parks. Even bigger fines if your dog harrasses wildlife. |
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bandana wearin', pole huckin', view lovin', dog herdin', 4x4 navigatin', lake huntin', butt-slidin' bridge crosser, who enjoys postholing with an overnighter pack
Surrey, BC
Canada
4070 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:22 AM
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| Holy shit that was way too close for comfort. Glad you two got out o.k. - I hope your wife isn't too shaken up. |
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
5029 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:30 AM
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| Were you able to report it right away or did you have to wait until you got back near a phone at the end of your trip? I bet they would have been waiting at the parking lot for her if you were able to get a call out. What a stupid douche. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
336 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by time2clmb
Please do tell what the blanket proper reaction is when you think you are about to get slammed into without notice or time. What would you have done with no time to respond?? Please educate every one.
Take the giant stick out of your rear t2c. You react waaay too fast to things people say on here without thinking them through. The impression I got from Peter's post is that he was acknowledging john's mindset at the moment that he felt a bear was about to collide into him, as opposed to say seeing a bear on the trail and having some degree of control about the situation ie: walking back, talking calmly etc.
The impression I got from Peter's response was that there was nothing else John could have done in the moment, he acknowledged that John didn't have much time to react and then mentioned the difference between a situation where you brace vs a situation where you have a little bit of control. Guess that was to subtle for you to get, perhaps you need to spend less time on the mountains and more around people to learn how to communicate when things confuse you.
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
5029 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:40 AM
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...oh, of note was there was a bear warning in effect for that entire area around Skoki, and the Lake Louise ski hill / Boulder Pass ect ect for at LEAST the past week now. Which makes her even more of a douche.
Wow you sure told me Spacemonkey. Good job! |
Edited by - time2clmb on 07/28/2010 08:43 AM |
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Coquitlam, BC
Canada
56 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:59 AM
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Heh, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way about unleashed dogs in the backcountry.
My GF and I went up to Joffre Lakes last weekend and there were quite a few people with unleashed dogs running around. Yes, including on the trails. Which also includes the boulder area between the first and second lakes.
While watching a golden retriever running back and forth on the rocks and zipping past people (running ahead, then running back to the owner, then running ahead again), I was wondering how many people got knocked off the rocks when a dog pushed past them.
Joffre Lakes was a bit of a zoo so it seemed like a disaster waiting to happen. |
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Hither & Yon, Alberta (usually)
Canada
1030 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 09:01 AM
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Is T2C being his usual nasty self? I've had him on 'ignore' for a while. You always hope you can learn from people, but some are just too difficult to bother with.
Thank you spacemonkey. That's exactly what I meant. |
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Rose City, AB
Canada
539 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 10:00 AM
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Scary stuff. That retard was completely disrespectful you, the bears, and any other hikers in the area. And why do people carry bearspray without being able to take off the safety? Same reason they carry it in their backpack where they can't reach it?
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Originally posted by johngenx
But, as we headed up the "tourist trail" to Bow Falls (the access to to the hut breaks off at the first canyon) I noticed that almost everyone had a facking dog! What the hell is with this? People can't go anywhere without their stupid dogs?
Is having a dog on a leash really that annoying to others, and if so, why? If it doesn't poop, doesn't chase, and doesn't bark, what's the problem? Is the presence of the dog itself inherently annoying? Or is it just the dog being off-leash that is the problem? For the record, I am totally against letting dogs off-leash anywhere.
We often take our dog on dayhikes, and more rarely on backpacks. We never considered taking him to Skoki due to the popularity of the area; I don't like the idea of other people who might not be dog lovers having to see a dog around camp. But on more of a remote backpacking trip, we often try to bring him along. Beats the kennel. |
Edited by - dav1481 on 07/28/2010 10:02 AM |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
2081 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 10:01 AM
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The woman had a bike stashed near Temple Lodge, so she was long gone by the time we got back to the car. We did report it.
The woman told us that the dog was leashed, but pulled free of the collar when the dog saw the bear.
Personally, I don't understand how leashed helps that much. Sure, it keeps the dog from running far from you, but if you encounter a bear on the trail, who is going to hang onto the leash if the bear and dog are freaking each other out?
I was going to uncork on the woman, but my wife was so terrified that I was working to calm her down. |
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Abbotsford, BC
Canada
215 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 10:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dav1481
Scary stuff. That retard was completely disrespectful you, the bears, and any other hikers in the area. And why do people carry bearspray without being able to take off the safety? Same reason they carry it in their backpack where they can't reach it?
quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
But, as we headed up the "tourist trail" to Bow Falls (the access to to the hut breaks off at the first canyon) I noticed that almost everyone had a facking dog! What the hell is with this? People can't go anywhere without their stupid dogs?
Is having a dog on a leash really that annoying to others, and if so, why? If it doesn't poop, doesn't chase, and doesn't bark, what's the problem? Is the presence of the dog itself inherently annoying? Or is it just the dog being off-leash that is the problem? For the record, I am totally against letting dogs off-leash anywhere.
We often take our dog on dayhikes, and more rarely on backpacks. We never considered taking him to Skoki due to the popularity of the area; I don't like the idea of other people who might not be dog lovers having to see a dog around camp. But on more of a remote backpacking trip, we often try to bring him along. Beats the kennel.
Unleashed dogs often do what this story relates - go off, find and irritate a bear, and come running back to their owner for protection, with the bear in hot pursuit.
Leashed dogs might be ok. My opinion is that it's better to leave them with a friend or a kennel for the duration of your trip.
It's not just bears either - it's any of the mountain wildlife.
Thanks for the warning John. |
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chilliwack, bc
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 10:15 AM
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Glad that you're both OK. Leashed or not a dog shouldn't be out on popular trails with bears and other large animals in the area. Definitely not safe for people, bears or dogs. I'll take my dog out hiking but not under those circumstances leashed or not.
We're heading to Jasper/Banff next month and the dog is staying at the doggy hotel while we are gone.
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
2081 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 10:25 AM
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I'm just sick of dogs. I trail run most mornings that I'm in the city (and often in the mountains) and every day I have to kick-at or out-run someone's stupid dog. Even though the local trails are on-leash areas, most people ignore it and let their poorly trained dogs run free.
How many cars do I see where the driver has a dog sitting on its lap?
I grew up with dogs (and cats and other animals) and love animals in general, but I'm sick of people having to take their dogs everywhere with them. I'm tired of dogs jumping on me, shitting on my lawn, chasing me while I run or bike, and pissing off wildlife in the mountains. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
336 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 11:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
I'm just sick of dogs.
Now that you've clearly identified yourself as a hater, I think we are getting closer to the truth of the matter.
quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
Even though the local trails are on-leash areas, most people ignore it and let their poorly trained dogs run free.
How many cars do I see where the driver has a dog sitting on its lap?
You are clearly upset at a specific type of dog owner, and that is a fair assessment. As a dog owner myself I too do not respond well to dog owners who with a sense of entitlement feel they need to take their dog into stores etc. And I do not get the whole sitting on the lap while driving either. But lets be fair, the problem is the people not the dogs.
I often take my dog on trips with me, but not all trips. If I gauge that it is too difficult or having him there will be a bother I opt to leave him at home. I have complete sympathy for your recent encounter and I understand the knee-jerk reaction, but the idea that dogs do not belong in the backcountry is ludicrous. The fact is that certain people are irresponsible and those behaviours spill over into many areas of their lives, including dog ownership. Don't paint us all with the same brush.
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
5029 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 11:11 AM
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You react waaay too fast to things people say on here without thinking them through.
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quote:
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Originally posted by johngenx
I'm just sick of dogs.
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Now that you've clearly identified yourself as a hater, I think we are getting closer to the truth of the matter.
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Johngenx
I grew up with dogs (and cats and other animals) and love animals in general
Nice fail.
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bandana wearin', pole huckin', view lovin', dog herdin', 4x4 navigatin', lake huntin', butt-slidin' bridge crosser, who enjoys postholing with an overnighter pack
Surrey, BC
Canada
4070 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 11:18 AM
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I'm honestly getting sick & tired of the statement from many on this thread and previous threads that 'dogs don't belong in the backcountry'. And what pray tell makes you think that humans belong any more? You don't all think that we don't 'stress' out the wildlife either? Please.
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Hither & Yon, Alberta (usually)
Canada
1030 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 11:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by johngenx
I'm just sick of dogs. ...I'm tired of dogs jumping on me, shitting on my lawn, chasing me while I run or bike, and pissing off wildlife in the mountains.
After your experience, I can hardly blame you. And we all know about the problems runners and cyclists (and pedestrians) encounter with dogs on the loose in the city.
A dog running free in the backcountry reminds me of the legal definition of insanity - being a danger to itself or others. If it's off-leash, it's liable to run off and get into trouble, and like this one did, bring the trouble back to you. I don't think that's a matter of poor training, but more a reversion to its natural instincts.
In fairness, though, I can see a role for a dog in the backcountry, provided it's properly controlled. On-leash, a dog can provide some warning to you of other potentially dangerous animals, and to more harmless wildlife in the area that you're coming through. I'd rather have a dog along to start barking at a bear when it smells it than to bump into it unexpectedly. That being said, I don't know whether bears get pissed off when they smell a dog and would attack, or if their response is purely defensive. But at least if it's tied up, it's not going to get a bear mad then bring it back to you. |
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Facking dogs in the backcountry!
