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 British Columbia - Vancouver Island
 Sid Williams Cabin for Winter of 09/10
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Hiker45
New Member


Cumberland, BC
Canada

78 Posts

 Posted - 12/01/2009 :  1:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply to this posting
Hi Folks :
Been in contact with the BC Park Rangers for Strathcona Park, and they have cleaned up and flown out the old wood stove in the cabin. So there is NO STOVE in the cabin anymore. So please bring your stove !!. They did this at the end of October of 2009. There will be no new stove in there at all, due to the aging of the cabin and the high fire risk to it. Signs are up at the trail head, at the Rangers Cabin and at the cabin itself. Have a good winter.

Edited by - Hiker45 on 12/02/2009 1:22 PM

GusChiggins
Junior Member


Nanaimo, BC
118 Posts

 Posted - 12/01/2009 :  1:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the information Hiker!

On a kind of related point; a group of us slowshoed/skied out to kwai lake this weekend and met 3 dudes who were hoping to get out to Sid's cabin. They left an hour before us; two were wearing jeans and steel toed boots, one was in sweat pants and old tennis shoes.

We caught up to them at the ranger cabin where we found them soaking wet, horribly tired from postholing the entire way in to that point and amazed at how comfortable we were.

Crazy.

Hiker45
New Member


Cumberland, BC
Canada

78 Posts

 Posted - 12/02/2009 :  1:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is how NOT to go out in the backcountry in the winter time !! Sounds like these 3 should stay in town and get better equipment !!.

johnrw
Junior Member



139 Posts

 Posted - 12/02/2009 :  9:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did you mention to the "dudes" that there are snowshoe rentals at the raven lodge.I don't spend much time around forbidden plateau but that sucks there is no stove at sids. I think there should be more Cabins in the park.

prother
Senior Member


Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada

1604 Posts

 Posted - 12/02/2009 :  9:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Careful John, You might get run out of town for speaking heresy like that! I somewhat agree with you and think that simple huts, like the Wheaton hut (and outhouses) placed in the right locations can help lessen the impact of humans.

Imagine 4 or 5 huts placed along the route on the Golden Hinde Traverse? I bet I'll get some hate mail for saying that.

Peter

cambium
Advanced Member



3022 Posts

 Posted - 12/03/2009 :  11:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
wow , maybe expand that to a Mt.Fuji Concept, about 44 huts, some sleeping up to 450 people...
http://live-fuji.jp/fuji/scott/huts.html

johnrw
Junior Member



139 Posts

 Posted - 12/03/2009 :  9:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Prother now your talking. that would make a great winter ski traverse from Elk river down to arnica lake. Ya just basic little huts for people to use. I think in the Rockies they are quite popular.
BC parks and other groups should be actively encouraging people to use parks more. Definitely some areas in the park should have zero development. But in some areas a cabin and or better trails would help more people enjoy the Park. Why be exclusive?

Tatlow
New Member


Whitehorse, Yukon
Canada

50 Posts

 Posted - 12/04/2009 :  12:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cannot agree more with Prother. Many of our parks and protected areas could be designated for special initiatives such as having traverse shelters and even wheelchair accessible routes (thinking of Cape Scott on this one). We do it for rivers and lakes using: catch and release: or fly fishing only; or no motors. We have the land, let's build in destination tourism and activity through specific designations. While it would require lots of public/stakeholder discussion, virtually every decision down the road could be reversible if found not to be appropriate for a given area.

prother
Senior Member


Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada

1604 Posts

 Posted - 12/16/2009 :  7:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I should say that I am in favour of huts and cabins in popular areas where they would help mitigate human impact, yet not as a way to attract people into a pristine area.

Regarding Strathcona Park and before my time there... I think in the 1960's, there were plans to build cabins at Circlet Lake, near Mt Albert Edward and another at Cream Lake, near Mt Septimus. Funding problems or what ever, these huts never got built. If they had, what would those locations look like now?

Circlet Lake now has a dozen or more tent platforms along it's eastern shore and an overflow camping area at its western end. As well, people often camp on a bench to the lakes north, against Park regulations. There are no set limits to the number of people allowed to camp in the area by BC Parks. If a cabin had been built at Circlet Lk, there would likely be a system of registration and a limit of people allowed into the area... Maybe less impact? I think so.

Cream Lake is a very popular staging area for climbs up Mt Septimus, Mt Rosseau and the Misthorns, as well as a general hiking destination. The official park status of the area is that it is random camping which means shit where ever you want and pay $5 per person per day. If there were a cabin and outhouse at Cream Lk, maybe it would be more costly, but might it be better controlled?

A cabin or even an outhouse on the route to Comox Glacier, at the Frog Pond, might mitigate the damage done to this tarn and camping location. I wouldnt drink water from the Frog Pond, if it were filtered and boiled twice, after noting the scads of people crapping all over the area and dogs swimming in the pond.

Cabins and outhouses might intrude on an area, but they can also be a way to mitigate an already overused area by humans. As we find more people accessing certain backcountry areas, we need to find ways to mitigate their impact and cabins might just be one solution..

Peter

monkeyboy
Junior Member


vancouver island, b.c.
Canada

404 Posts

 Posted - 12/18/2009 :  2:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No more infastructure in our parks period! They are supposed to preserve the "wilderness" experience for all for the future. Sids' cabin and others like it were built long ago before human pressure was so immense. More junk = more people = more damage = more costs to users

Wake up people.

Edited by - monkeyboy on 12/18/2009 2:25 PM

prother
Senior Member


Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada

1604 Posts

 Posted - 12/18/2009 :  11:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Then we need to put up barbed wire fencing and keep all humans out of the protected park areas. Without infrastructure to mitigate human impact in high traffic areas, we will get more junk and more damage.

Without the donated outhouse, with a fly out drum, at Circlet Lk, what would the old pit toilet look like now? and where would all that human shit go? How should we preserve the cesspool of the Frog Pond?

Peter

johnrw
Junior Member



139 Posts

 Posted - 12/19/2009 :  6:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Monkey, monkey.......
nice, obviously a different view than mine. The vast majority of Strathcona park never ever sees anybody. I bet only 5-10% of the land is "used" by visitors. So if you want "wilderness " you need to walk a little further from the road. I think the park is not ruined as most of it is never seen by people. You can't argue against outhouses (infrastructure) in the park.

And your phrase makes little sense.
"More junk = more people = more damage = more costs to users"
Cabins would charge $$ and bring badly needed funding into the park.

monkeyboy your message sounds like a frustrated father trying to preach abstinence to his kids. It wont work. But that's a different topic.

Of course big areas of the park must always be protected from any building activity.


Edited by - johnrw on 12/19/2009 6:49 PM

cambium
Advanced Member



3022 Posts

 Posted - 12/20/2009 :  01:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by prother

Then we need to put up barbed wire fencing and keep all humans [ cambium insert here > "keep all human excrement out off park water-shed/water ways ]...

Without the donated outhouse, with a fly out drum, at Circlet Lk, what would the old pit toilet look like now? and where would all that human shit go? How should we preserve the cesspool of the Frog Pond?

Peter



Pretty simple really , like this , as I tend to pick up not only my own , but other slob's and dog's poo-poo...

...


You do believe me , eh ?!

We know of one river beach that saw 18 poo piles upstream of the cup/pot intake at a camp,
futher downstream at another , about 20 piles, 80 % human 20% domestic animal [ that we could see/smell ].

Parks could mandate every one bring their own Latex and baggies, especially up at Frog Pond, or walk back to the tree line with their shovel and bury it well, and mandate that no excrement occur within 150 meters of waterline, no urinating within 150 feet, barring that > burn it And leave pets at home or monitor their activities with a keen eye > but we all know there will always be some hardcore scoff-law slobs out there.
Combined with umpteen tri-lingual signage thru-out the Parks.

Recently I stopped for a camera-break and laid my cam & tripod on the ground, and right there on that spot was a chunk of dog-poo. Rude !! Thank nature it was frozen.



On one 1/2 acre freshwater island we found 12 or so poo-piles lining the entire west side [ where the swimming/fishing is possible, in August]. Kayak island got renamed "out-house island"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the subject of "cabins" I would prefer to see several open-air overhead-shelters elevated over the ground level, "Free of monetary charges", first come serve, two-day/night max. vacancy,unless survival & climate needs dictate otherwise, with small fire pits > wood removal limited to free-fall debris about thumb thickness.
In the back country most visitors are fairly clean when it comes to standard litter, yet feces seems to be another story unto itself when it comes to hygeine standards and odour/sight control.


Edited by - cambium on 12/20/2009 11:03 PM

johnrw
Junior Member



139 Posts

 Posted - 12/21/2009 :  07:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cambium always has entertaining post. First BC parks doesn't have the ability to mandate anything, let alone were people will shit.. I've never found feces a big problem in the park.

Though I did find a big load like 5ft from Carter lake. Who ever that was, is probably so stupid that they would shit on the toilet seat if there was an outhouse.

Cabins wouldn't bring more people to the park.

monkeyboy
Junior Member


vancouver island, b.c.
Canada

404 Posts

 Posted - 12/21/2009 :  11:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sure outhouses are quite nessesary in high use areas,I'll give on that point,no problem.However,if you crap "politely" and cover your waste with duff or moss and used a secluded spot in the first place,there would be little problem in most areas lightly used in the park.You will NEVER find any of my piles in the bush and hey,bush is always nicer to crap in than a smelly,infected public crapper that never gets disinfected and has no hand washing provisions.Most people are pigs in private and don't practice good sanitation,truth.I'm not pointing fingers here though,I think,by what I read,that most folks on this site are intellegent enough to be clean.
But what I see are continuing infastructure builds going on almost needlessly such as boardwalk that only becomes deadly to walk on in the fall/spring with frost,and eventually rotting and then tilting becoming worse for one example.So people start talking about needing more cabins and shelters because of dumb-asses who choose to hike in snow with jeans and steel toed boots and that worries me.Even the suggestion of such can start the momentum.
We talk of badly needed funding in the parks but why do we think it has to come by way of fees????We all pay high taxes already in this country yet the Feds are always overlooked as the correct source of funding.If we got them to stop pissing away money on BS then there would be enough to fund parks properly as they are regrettably becoming a major draw for tourism and will continue to be in the future.Our governments have little or no problem spending multi-millions to dredge out a harbour in Victoria and build new docks for criuse ships bringing in tourist dollars but they have to milk us a few bucks to camp in the bush after we already paid much tax on the gear,gas and now foods to do so only after working hard enough(and paying more taxes in the process)to be able to afford the time to camp in the first place!? BS!
There was a big influx of infastructure being built in Strathcona in the 90's using money from the "forest renewal fund" and out of work loggers at the time.The wood they used was pressure treated with cyanide and arsenic and leached these poisons into sensative habitats as it quickly broke down and rotted.As this mess collapsed,backcountry fees were implemented to help pay for repairs to all this junk.This is what I'm afraid of continuing.Mt.Washington has lately been intalling more of this type of crap,though no longer pressure treated :),as they have litterally taken over the "new" trial head into Paradise Meadows conveniently right beside the Raven lodge.Will we get to pay more later,or sooner,to repair this now?I am sure we will.
If the trails need upkeep because of use then apply more wood chips and duff and only use boardwalk where it is NEEDED.And build this like they did in the past with yellow cedar that lasts long and is natural to the enviroment.So many lopp-sided land trades have been made with logging co.s' that we should be demanding in these deals provisions for said building materials.Take a look at ANY burn pile near any of the park boudaries and you will find mre than enough yellow cedar to build all that in needed in ouir parks,just getting burned because it's not "good enough" for the industry.Any of our outdoor clubs would be happy to arrange volunteer teams to save this lumber from the flame.Call me,I'll be there with my ripping chain on!

cambium
Advanced Member



3022 Posts

 Posted - 12/21/2009 :  11:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnrw

Cambium always has entertaining post. First BC parks doesn't have the ability to mandate anything, let alone were people will shit.. I've never found feces a big problem in the park.

Though I did find a big load like 5ft from Carter lake. Who ever that was, is probably so stupid that they would shit on the toilet seat if there was an outhouse.

Cabins wouldn't bring more people to the park.




I beg to differ on that [ re:cabins]. At a North Island Lake there was an overhead shelter that could sleep a score of people, with concrete pads, two tables, Huge 1/2 cut iron-marine ball and grill mounted over a set fire structure.
A northern islander's retreat and warm-up/survival shelter associated with a cave structure not too far away.
Then some fool-asses started Internetting/GPS'ing this remote Haven as ..." free accomodations, etc"..., people started flooding into here and bringing problems , and the next thing Mt.Waddington Reg. District pulled this rare piece.
The locals are still peeved at this and wary of nonlocal visitors.

You advertise it, they will come, and feces does follow. Build them and keep them secret, no "sign-posts " till you are there. Parks do not have to "blow their horns" all the time.
I suppose that most climbers such as yourself are mindful of your toilet practise [ at the Crags this year the groups we met were very respectfull ] , but the problems I see aren't on the cliffs and are prevalent enough for me to start a log and picture file [ pun not intended ].

Another issue is that B.C. parks is financially being gutted, and the area around the frog ponds is being cellulosely-gutted along the borders.

When I view other hiking sites that show one or two regular mtn. pics & posts, I wonder if he/ she are removing and/or properly burying well off-trail their human and canine feces ? Nothing ruder to be in the outback and encounter other people's dumps.


Edited by - cambium on 12/21/2009 12:06 PM

monkeyboy
Junior Member


vancouver island, b.c.
Canada

404 Posts

 Posted - 12/21/2009 :  11:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
prother Posted - 12/18/2009 : 11:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then we need to put up barbed wire fencing and keep all humans out of the protected park areas. Without infrastructure to mitigate human impact in high traffic areas, we will get more junk and more damage.



Hey hows about barbed wire just to keep out sledders,ATVers and bikers? With a few burmese tiger traps too?

I've been seeing too much of this lately in the park. Hey,and does anyone know who the A-hole is that's been mountainbiking the plateau trail between panther lk. and douglas lk?
This looser is doing real damage! I'm going to catch you one day buddy!!! Look out!

cambium
Advanced Member



3022 Posts

 Posted - 12/21/2009 :  12:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quote/]
Monkey-boy 11:41a.m.
..."call me, I'll be there with my ripping chainsaw ".[ to help with trails/yellow-cedar reclaim]

Add> include me as well, I cannot physically weight - bear the logs but I can still use a saw in standing positions or other tasks. Transportation/yes.
A C.T. work party sounds like a great idea !

[ in referance to the arsenic/copper blend boards in "Paradose" Meadows in the '90's, I remember that well, and sent off my complaints to then-Hon. Moe Sihota, Min.Environment.
His stint as Environment minister was lack-luster, this being one example of no expertise in Riparian Poisoning. Now, he is "president of NDP", and no slander to party intended, but this man{ex-enviro-minister} is trying to over-ride OCP in Comox to build a Drive-thru coffee establishment. Real Enviromental No-No . I think the population recognizes the two-devil's politics of B.C., and are unwilling to vote in the elections each time].

Edited by - cambium on 12/21/2009 12:05 PM

ridgerambler
Starting Member


Ladysmith, BC
Canada

31 Posts

 Posted - 01/03/2010 :  12:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Peter you are a little rotter! 4-5 huts along the Golden Hinde traverse?!? How about a bridge from Auger Pt to Philips Creek as well?
Heresy indeed. Last time I buy YOU a beer!
Gord

prother
Senior Member


Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada

1604 Posts

 Posted - 01/03/2010 :  7:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gord,

Yes, I must atone my sins and not speak such blasphemy. I shall walk barefoot into the wilderness and scourge myself with yellow cedar branches and bathe in the frozen lake. Then I'll go warm up in the hut and when I return, I'll buy you a beer!

Peter

ridgerambler
Starting Member


Ladysmith, BC
Canada

31 Posts

 Posted - 01/04/2010 :  1:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Wheaton Hut once saved my hind from a very wet and cool night in '03, and brought back wonderful memories, having stayed there for a few days as a kid in the early 70's. So, I guess I'm a semi-purist. I'll use a hut if it saves me and my gear from getting thoroughly soaked, but I won't be voting for any new structures. Unless of course it was a convenient backcountry tavern serving fine Longwood ales.
cheers, Gord
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