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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 1:34 PM
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So, I am going to ad a pair of skis to the old quiver this year. I skied most of the time last winter on my G3 Spitfire skis (126-89-111) and really enjoyed them. I found them an awesome ski mountaineering ski, and the 177 size pretty much right for a compromise of turning and stability. Much of my skiing on glaciers ends up in variable conditions from boot-top powder (or maybe more, but not much) to bulletproof hard pack.
I got out with some folks into the "bottomless powder" and found my ski (and perhaps technique) a little wanting. The tips dive pretty easy and even though the SpitFires are not fat, turning in those deep powder conditions takes some real effort.
All the reviews of skis like the Pontoons rave about their ability to turn in the bottomless pow and keep the tips up even when you goof (not too badly, of course).
Should a "strong intermediate" skier (as a fantastic skier called me) think about one of those super fat fully rockered skis? Are they truly an "expert only" ski, and will I give up on them in frustration, or can mere mortal skiers take advantage of them?
Kev, you know I'm lookin' at you, but any opinions more than welcome!! |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1325 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 2:02 PM
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| I thought rockered skis made skiing easier for everyone. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1427 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 2:04 PM
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| The biggest complaint I seem to be hearing about tip rocker skis is that they make skiing powder too easy. |
Edited by - scottN on 09/16/2009 5:38 PM |
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 | LeeL
Advanced Member
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Extreme ski tourin, mountain bikin addict who hikes at least once a year
2509 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 2:08 PM
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| they're heavy. They make breaking trail really really easy. Lousy for sidehilling icy traverses but then you wouldn't be on them if you had to sidehill icy traverses I would imagine |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 2:18 PM
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| You've skied the Tonics, eh Lee? G3's specs on them don't go into the rockered tip much and they're skinnier than the big powder skis from K2. I am interested in them, though. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1461 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 3:48 PM
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Pontoons make me think of helicopters in Alaska. I'm not sure I'd want to haul them up a mountain by human power.
I'd be more inclined to look at something like the Lhasa Pow or Megawatt. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3523 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 4:07 PM
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| MegaWatt, eh? I can get BD's at a good price, but not the PM skis. My brands of choice would be G3, Black Diamond, K2, Karhu, Head, and Dynafit. |
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vancouver, bc
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 4:26 PM
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Full disclosure, I don't ski. I snowboard/splitboard. Though my touring buddies are mostly all skiers. 1 complaint I kept hearing last year was that the rockered skiers while great on a bottomless day, seemed to suck at edging and were a downright liability in icy or very hard conditions (note: these are good skiers, hucking cliffs, flying down steep colouirs and aren't simply poor at edging). There has been times when the guys on the rockered skis basically ended up survival skiing for their lives while the rest of us enjoyed a fairly uneventful but noisy (scraping) ride down. They just didn't seem to have any fun skiing in less the good conditions given the softer flex of the rockered skis. Its not hard to see you end up with less effective edge on hardpack as your tip and tail kinda float - perhaps a "less" rockered ski would be an improvement in these conditions. As you described most of the time on a day or trip in the backcountry you're going to come across variable conditions.
The way I see it, slightly better performance on a perfect pow day is not worth comprising your ability to safely ski down the harder/icier stuff.
That said I can vouch for the incredible grip magnetraction (think wavy cut french fries) has on hard pack/ice and would think the combination of that with a rockered ski could be a good balance. Rocker for float but magnetraction for unholy grip. Check out the selection Lib tech NAS for that.
I'd suggest you try out some demos of rockered planks on a hard day at the ski hill to be sure you won't end up in a hazardous situation out in the backcountry on a less then stellar day.
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
6302 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 4:33 PM
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Dude you have seriously GOT to go rockered fatty for powder specific. Just don't be a back seat driver for crying out loud, there's no need to be backseating on these things. I know a few people that tour on Pontoons ect, and the weight doesn't really seem to be a big deal if you are in shape. Not all fat rockered skis are heavy. You already have G3 Spitfires...use those for lazy days and loooooong tours and go for a side country / day trip rig for the deep days.
The Lhasa Carbons are suprisingly light, I know you don't want these due to price but there are others out there that are also not too bad weight wise.
Check out the new side country line from K2 since you can get deals on them. I think some of them are 100+ with tip rocker. Meggawats might also be a good choice. There are some good reviews out there on them.
Check out line skis aswell, they have a couple of rockered skis in the mix. Can probably still find some of last years kicking around cheap.
Since you have more than one pair of skis already, you have a quiver. There is absolutely no reason to not add a powder specific ski into the mix.
quote:
Should a "strong intermediate" skier (as a fantastic skier called me) think about one of those super fat fully rockered skis?
I see no reason not to. Just stay out of the back seat.
quote:
The biggest complaint I seem to be hearing about tip rocker skis is that make skiing powder too easy.
The complaint is kind of retro grouch rediculous. If skiing is too easy on anything then it's time to step it up to another level. It's a perfect excuse for people to stagnate.
I just added a 127 waist ski to my quiver. Powder is where it's at, and some of these skis rock the shit out of groomers as well...it all depends on how you ski them.
Ignore the Euro's that point and laugh lol. Let them keep their "pistes".
Remember...never blame a shitty day on the skis. Some skis just like a different technique that's all. Find it and off you go.
One advantage of rockered fatties is the amount of speed you can get in low angle deep pow. While everyone else is bottomed out and stuck be sure to laugh as you pass them at speed while throwing down face shots.
I have gotten rid of a few pairs and this will be my set up for 09/10. Bindings waiting for a mount.
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1461 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 4:39 PM
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BD also has the Justice this year which is a skinnier version of the Megawatt.
Megawatt 178: 147-120-126 ~4.8kg
Justice 175: 138-115-123 ~4.15kg
Rockered skis ski short so you could also look at the longer lengths.
I just looked and K2 also has the Darkside and the Sidestash which have tip rocker and seem to be in the same league as the Megawatt and Justice.
I'm not aware of anything comparable by the other manufacturers you listed. |
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
6302 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 4:41 PM
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quote:
I'd suggest you try out some demos of rockered planks on a hard day at the ski hill to be sure you won't end up in a hazardous situation out in the backcountry on a less then stellar day.
This makes no sense at all. The guy already has more than one pair of skis and on shitty icy days why would you choose to go out with the rockered fats? They are to bring on powder days.
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The way I see it, slightly better performance on a perfect pow day is not worth comprising your ability to safely ski down the harder/icier stuff.
Stay off the harder icier stuff or bring different skis. I don't think there is as much bullet proof hard snow out this way in mid winter...if there is you're going to the wrong spots. Always seems there is powder to be had some where. There are some rockered skis out there that do just fine on hardpack. Not all, but some. Carving is for turkies anyways. |
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
6302 Posts |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1325 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 5:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by splitboarder
Full disclosure, I don't ski. I snowboard/splitboard. Though my touring buddies are mostly all skiers. 1 complaint I kept hearing last year was that the rockered skiers while great on a bottomless day, seemed to suck at edging and were a downright liability in icy or very hard conditions (note: these are good skiers, hucking cliffs, flying down steep colouirs and aren't simply poor at edging). There has been times when the guys on the rockered skis basically ended up survival skiing for their lives while the rest of us enjoyed a fairly uneventful but noisy (scraping) ride down. They just didn't seem to have any fun skiing in less the good conditions given the softer flex of the rockered skis. Its not hard to see you end up with less effective edge on hardpack as your tip and tail kinda float - perhaps a "less" rockered ski would be an improvement in these conditions. As you described most of the time on a day or trip in the backcountry you're going to come across variable conditions.
Perhaps not on ice, but from what I hear about rockered skis they make many sub-par conditions (breakable crust etc) much easier to ski, so it would seem that they are not really just deep powder specific. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1461 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 5:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by time2clmb
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There's a shit ton of product info on TGR in tech talk. You can always post up your ability and question there...if you don't mind getting called stuff lol stfu jong.
You spelled it wrong.  |
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
6302 Posts |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1461 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 5:22 PM
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| The Voile Drifter looks interesting as well; 121 waist 3.35kg. |
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
6302 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 5:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hafilax
The Voile Drifter looks interesting as well; 121 waist 3.35kg.
You know...I have never really looked at Voile skis. I do like the specs on the 182 and 192 though. Very interesting indeed. |
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
6302 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 5:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hafilax
quote:
Originally posted by time2clmb
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There's a shit ton of product info on TGR in tech talk. You can always post up your ability and question there...if you don't mind getting called stuff lol stfu jong.
You spelled it wrong.
lol...yup, that's pretty much how it goes. Either that or an insulting redirect to epic ski....or a search jong redirect. |
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
6302 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 5:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by swebster
quote:
Originally posted by splitboarder
Full disclosure, I don't ski. I snowboard/splitboard. Though my touring buddies are mostly all skiers. 1 complaint I kept hearing last year was that the rockered skiers while great on a bottomless day, seemed to suck at edging and were a downright liability in icy or very hard conditions (note: these are good skiers, hucking cliffs, flying down steep colouirs and aren't simply poor at edging). There has been times when the guys on the rockered skis basically ended up survival skiing for their lives while the rest of us enjoyed a fairly uneventful but noisy (scraping) ride down. They just didn't seem to have any fun skiing in less the good conditions given the softer flex of the rockered skis. Its not hard to see you end up with less effective edge on hardpack as your tip and tail kinda float - perhaps a "less" rockered ski would be an improvement in these conditions. As you described most of the time on a day or trip in the backcountry you're going to come across variable conditions.
Perhaps not on ice, but from what I hear about rockered skis they make many sub-par conditions (breakable crust etc) much easier to ski, so it would seem that they are not really just deep powder specific.
I can say that mine make breakable crust ski much easier. My buddy swears by his pontoons for sub par conditions. Not all are created equal though. |
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Surrey, BC
Canada
1036 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 5:39 PM
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Get a pair of 222/333 and customize them to your heart's desire. Really look forward to your gear review.
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Alberta-based choss climbin', flame throwin', rappel lovin', ass talkin' hater who doesn't like "Gumby" for a descriptor
6302 Posts |
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I am so ski shopping!
