| Author |
Topic |
Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada
1332 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 10:25 PM
|
Why not a few big dams?
They (governments, both US & Can) built a few big dams on the Columbia River back a few years ago starting around the Depression era and promised that it would take care of all of the Pacific Northwest’s (USA & Canada) energy needs forever and further promised that it wouldn’t impact on the salmon runs.
These predictions were all wrong, whether intentionally or mistakenly. The fact remains that these projects of humankind totally failed in what they predicted and promised.
Will the new “Run Of The River” projects be true to the promises that government and industry are now making? I think not! Google search “Pete Seeger”, “Woody Guthrie” and “Roll On Columbia” and have your eyes opened to how historically the watersheds of the Pacific Northwest have been ruined and then look towards the future of the rivers under the present government and industry. “Trust us” they say... “We’ve learned from past mistakes.”... “We know better now”... Sounds like the same old bullshit to me!
Roll on Columbia, roll on!
Peter |
|
|
Popkum, BC
Canada
5902 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 10:37 PM
|
| I understand this and certainly won't be voting Liberals or NDP...They both think that privatizing watershed and hydro is the way to go and the intelect of the people is to say no to selling our resources! Sometimes people in politics really don't have a brain...more then not it seems. |
|
|
Popkum, BC
Canada
5902 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 11:04 PM
|
| p.s. privatizing hydro is like saying...USA OWN US NOW coz we know you know where the good investments are...NATURAL RESOURCES YAH! |
|
|
North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 11:05 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Flowing-Brook
I understand this and certainly won't be voting Liberals or NDP...They both think that privatizing watershed and hydro is the way to go and the intelect of the people is to say no to selling our resources! Sometimes people in politics really don't have a brain...more then not it seems.
You could say they suffer from S.I.D.S
as soon as they get into power. Sudden intelligence deficiency syndrome. |
|
|
Popkum, BC
Canada
5902 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 11:13 PM
|
| Eryne, easily importing electricity to other jurisdictions doesn't mean it's going to save our environment. I'm really surprised at your stand on this. Doesn't CANADA belong to other countries and jurisdictions enough already? |
|
|
|
Fowl photographin, animal lovin, thread trollin, dry bag humpin, canoe canoodler
Vancouver, BC
Canada
4043 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 11:23 PM
|
Ya I was going to bring up the Columbia river project when I read caurala's opening statement about..
Properly planned, designed and implemented run-of-river hydro has very minimal impacts -
They now have monuments up there for the damage that project caused to the Columbia watershed.
Flowing Brook, I dont blame you for not wanting to vote for either of the big parties in this election but you do know that a protest vote for any other party will simply help the one party that wants to start these projects immediately?
It would be nice if everyone's vote actually counted but that wont happen unless change our electoral system, which is my biggest reason for voting this election, to VOTE YES TO STV on May 12th  |
|
|
Port Hardy, B.C.
Canada
40 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 11:45 PM
|
Rafe Mair has taken on and been an advocate for many great causes over the years. But he is totally out to lunch on the objection to the ROR projects being reviewed by B.C.H. and the province. How stupid would it be to carry on with the status quo??? The technology has expanded to the point that alternate energy alternatives must be investigated/reviewed/discussed and then--only then be allowed to proceed. I am a strong supporter of exploring all options/alternatives to safe,environmentally sound power generation projects in B.C. We must take ownership/stewardship of the resources that are available to us and future generations. That being said every proposal must pass an intensive review involving all defined interests. I was born in 1950 and now enjoying the thrills of grandparenthood....I am committed to doing whatever I can to ensure that when I leave this earth----it will better than when I entered...I would love to have Rafe come to Port Hardy and come for a tour with me and see first hand some of the inovative "Green" energy options currently under review.......Keep The Faith...Al H
|
|
|
Popkum, BC
Canada
5902 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 12:06 AM
|
| Monster, all I can say is if we don't expect change, change won't happen. Persistance may take a few years but at least it ebbs away like a deep flowing-brook. |
|
|
Maple Ridge
Canada
29 Posts |
|
100 Mile House, BC
Canada
178 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 07:38 AM
|
Maybe someone can explain this:
In 2008 BC Hydro was a net seller of electricity (google their Annual Report). It has signed contracts for a whole lot of RoR IPP power, with many projects under construction now. There are more proposals to add even more private IPP power, including Plutonic/GE's huge Bute Inlet project.
If the expensive new IPP power turns out to be surplus to our needs, will BC Hydro have to export it at a loss? Will our Hydro bills go up to cover that loss? A moratorium on IPPs seems like a good idea. |
|
|
North Vancouver, BC
Canada
1273 Posts |
|
Richmond, BC
Canada
2473 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 08:35 AM
|
I agree That the NDP will not stop the "shovels already in the ground" nor will they deny the value of this resource opportunity but they might review and deal with the idea of our power being sold back to us. It's our power and we get to sell it.
From the NDP side there could be a potential for an export Tax/Tariff on power going south which may start a bit of a commotion. The province is going to have to make money from it somehow seeing that we would lose royalties from the sell off of BC Hydro.
I'm obviously not going to be a fan of how ROR projects affect the environment, but if it's going to happen it is somewhat better than damning a river. Rafe's point on upgrading the current generators at present stations needs to be addressed to improve efficiency.
|
Edited by - pmicheals on 05/09/2009 08:40 AM |
|
|
Richmond, BC
Canada
2473 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 08:38 AM
|
quote:
If the expensive new IPP power turns out to be surplus to our needs, will BC Hydro have to export it at a loss?
The States are screaming for power but the question is, will they pay their bills? |
|
|
|
Mysterious, pop can stove stashin', gps totin', overnighter virgin, wannabe tentmaker and foul weather wuss who rides a thumper to the trailhead with wonderdog Max to hike the Chilliwack Valley
Chwk
Canada
4921 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 09:52 AM
|
The thing that bugs me is what you discover when you do a bit of digging...
Insiders move to IPP industry
Mark Grant, BC Liberal executive director, resigns December 12, 2008 to join Rupert Peace Power.
David Cyr, former Assistant to BC Liberal Minister Mike de Jong, is now a director at Plutonic Power.
Robert Poore, recently worked under the Provincial Revenue Minister of the Province of BC, now is a senior director at Plutonic Power.
Tom Syer, who has held a variety of senior positions in the BC Government including Gordon Campbell’s Deputy Chief of Staff, is now a director at Plutonic Power.
Bill Irwin, after holding key positions in the BC Ministries of Land and Water, and Crown Lands, now is a director at Plutonic Power.
Bruce Ripley spent the last 2 of his 16 years at BC Hydro as VP Engineering, now is President and CEO of Plutonic Power.
Elisha McCallum (Moreno), after 7 years with BC Hydro as a media relations manager, moved to a directorship with Plutonic Power.
Bruce Young, has held several high profile positions with the BC Liberal party and lobbied his own party on behalf of Katabatic Power is listed as a director of Atla Energy.
Stephen Kukucha, former senior policy advisor for the BC Ministry of Environment, is now president and CEO of Atla Energy.
Bob Herath, former Assistant Regional Water Manager for the BC Ministry of Environment is now with Syntaris Power.
Paul Taylor, after his work as President and CEO of crown corporation ICBC as well as high level positions in the BC Government, is now President and CEO of Naikun Wind Energy Group.
Michael J. O’Conner, former President and CEO of Crown Corporation BC Transit, now holds senior positions at Naikun.
Jackie Hamilton, formerly held various BC Government environmental assessment and regulatory management positions, is now a VP at Cloudworks Energy.
Michael Margolick, held positions in resource and strategic planning at BC Hydro, now is the Vice President of Power and Transmission planning at Naikun Wind.
Robert Price, after a 30-year career at BC Hydro and Power Authority which culminated as the utility’s Vancouver Island transmission line construction, supervision and operations manager, now a member of the Hawkeye ‘team’ (website is not clear on Price’s position at Hawkeye).
Mr. Paul Adams, after a 33-year career with BC Hydro in which he held senior management positions, now is another ‘team’ member at Hawkeye.
Doug Bishop, formerly 32 years with BC Hydro and Powerex, was contracted in 2004 by Plutonic Power.
Ron Monk former BC Hydro Engineer, now employed by Kerr Wood Leidal engineering firm used by IPPs.
Wayne Chambers, a former BC Hydro power plant and substation operator, now a manager at Cloudworks.
Alexander Kiess, after long career with BC Hydro in management, now works as a consultant to Syntaris Power.
Geoff Plant, former BC Liberal Attorney General, now chair of Renaissance Power.
http://www.publicpowerbc.ca/insiders-move-ipp-industry
Follow the money...this stinks to high heaven!
|
|
|
|
Fast hikin, carrot chompin, always grinnin, gear scatterin recipient of the Theta Lake manouver
Burnaby
2047 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 12:35 AM
|
TheShadow - WOW! What a long list. Scary how connected that seems. 'follow the money" seem like a perfect fit here indeed.  |
|
|
100 Mile House, BC
Canada
178 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 09:07 AM
|
When parts of BC Hydro were privatized in 2002 to Accenture, a class action suit was launched to oppose the privatization. The Govt blocked the class action suit by passing legislation that put the Accenture agreement above the law, thus exempt from legal challenge (Bill 10).
When the Squamish/Whistler Regional District wanted to stop the Ashlu IPP project, the Govt blocked them by passing legislation that removed their veto power over these projects (Bill 30).
It's scary and disturbing what the Govt has done in order to ram through the privatization of our electricity utility. |
|
|
42 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 5:08 PM
|
You want a government that provides consultation with the public.
You want a government that does not act without informing the people.
You want to be told of an environmentally altering issue when it is being considered not 2 weeks before it happens.
BC is relatively pristine even with our existing fish farms and predatory grizzly hunts.
Most people here do really not know what they have. Other countries would give their eye teeth to have what we have because they squandered their resources.
All is not development.
Old boys over 50 can see the end of the line and might they be speaking out for future generations or personal gain?
We don't have an endangered species act, we hunt the Griz, we let forest companies with tenures go into real estate development with lands that should be used for forestry, we have the possibility for off shore oil development. We have unsustainable fish farming practices that nuke wild stock. We don't have adequate conservation policing etc
Its up to you ultimately with your own open heart to place your vote for what you really want.
alpenglowpro |
|
|
Coquitlam, BC
Canada
343 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 7:55 PM
|
I'm going to tackle a few responses in this post.
1. Hydro scale... microhydro (the definition varies) would generally would have the capacity to produce up to 100 kW. Many proposed RoR projects in BC would be considered small hydro producing 10 MW to 30 MW. Site C would be considered megahydro.
2. TheShadow, ask yourself why so many very talented and visionary people who held former high-ranking positions in BC Hydro. It's not purely for money... look up what BC Hydro exec pull in (http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/internet/documents/policies/pdf/policies_statement_of_executive_compensation_june_2008.Par.0001.File.policies_statement_of_executive_compensation_june_2008.pdf)
They left Hydro to free themselves of the limitations of BC Hydro's operating mandates. There was a time when Hydro was building megaprojects every 10 years or so... nothing has happened since Mica was complete in 1980. Free to innovate and create, these visionary folk are no longer limited by the rigid BC Hydro framework.
3. Monster, by very minimal effects I am comparing it to the impacts of forestry in the very same watersheds. It's a no-brainer.
4. Peter, I agree that the transmission corridor from Bute is long, but think of where the load centers are Vancouver and Vancouver Island. Bute Inlet isn't so far away from the interconnection point at Malaspina Substation compared to something like the Northwest Transmission Line that will go from Terrace to Bob Quinn Lake (~359 km). Also, most of the roads in Bute already exist. They will be improved and rehabilitated. Old timber box culverts and substandard stream crossings would be replaced by oversized clear spans to protect valuable streams. One more point, the academic fellow that you quoted was probably referring to mega-hydro projects. The environmental footprint of a run-of-river hydro project is MUCH smaller for small hydro than for dam-storage type hydro.
In closing, politics suck eh? Lets go hiking.
C |
|
|
| Eryne
Intermediate Member
|
Chilliwack, BC
Canada
579 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 10:36 AM
|
Run of river IPPs are a muddy issue, for sure. When someone like Rafe Mair, whom many of you respect but I don't, speaks out against them, it makes sense to listen. However, it also makes sense to pay attention to the other opinions, such as those of died in the wool environmentalists like David Suzuki and Tzeporah Berman. more info
If you consider the huge potential negative impacts of megaprojects like Site C, microhydro projects start to look more attractive. Look what happened when Williston Lake was created. There are still forests under water. The transmission lines span the province. Do we want more projects like that? Site C, way up north, might look attractive, but it could change an enormous watershed. Not to mention the cost, both in dollars and environmental degradation, to move the power around BC.
If you consider geography, run of river IPPs look bad because they occur close to where the people live in BC. It seems to me it's nimbyism. Rafe Mair lives in Lions Bay, where there are potential run of river projects. He might have to see that happen, so he wants to stop it. If he lived in the Peace, he would be just as outspoken against megaprojects as he is about run of river projects. Would he then speak out in support of run of river IPPs?
|
|
|
Coquitlam, BC
Canada
343 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 12:46 PM
|
Just some more info... where does BC Hydro go if Site C goes ahead. I think that small hydro and other IPP developed energy sources are worthwhile.
Border Creek - 275 MW
Elaho River - 200 MW (that one would stir up the hornets nest I have no doubt)
Homathko Development (dam on the Grand Canyon of the Homathko, generators @ Mosley Creek and storage damming at Nude Canyon and Tatlayoko Lake) - 290 MW + 420 MW + 185 MW
McGregor - 360 MW
Murphy - 275 MW
Site E (Peace River) - 675 MW
High Site E - 1800 MW (massive flooding)
Liard Development (Devil's Gorge - 2490 MW, Low Beavercrow - 1128 MW, Hell Gate - 700 MW)... nowhere near any loadcenters... I'm sure we could sell it straight to Alberta to power up the oil sands...
Iskut River Development - (More Creek - 170 MW, Iskut Canyon - 810 MW).
As you can see, BC Hydro is not asleep at the wheel... the reasons these projects aren't moving forward are legion. Flooding whole valleys is no longer an option as it was viable up until the 80's.
And don't for a second think that BC Hydro only does BIG hydro. Aberfeldie in the Kootenays and Puntledge on the Island are both run-of-river generating facilities.
C |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Rafe Mair & BC water
