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Vancouver, BC
Canada
2666 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 2:54 PM
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Wally and Troy’s recent adventure at Pierce Lakes spurred me to do a little reading on the toxicology of Indian Hellebore (Veratrum viride), and I thought toxic plants in BC might be a good discussion. Water filters/treatment/boiling won’t remove or destroy plant toxins.
There are three very toxic plants in BC that spring to mind: Indian hellebore, water hemlock and death camas.
Water hemlock looks like Queen Anne’s lace or could be confused with other members of the carrot family (spring gold, for example). I've seen it around Victoria, I can't remember ever seeing it on the mainland. Hikers would be wise to know how to identify it since it is quite poisonous.
Death camas could be consumed by accident if you are harvesting blue camas, which is rare (maybe threatened) and therefore you shouldn’t be harvesting it anyways.
Of concern is Indian hellebore (aka false green hellebore) which grows around streams in the subalpine, ie, where you want to get your water from. I’d like to note that the odds of getting enough of this toxin from filling up at a stream are very small. The following is what I managed to dig up on the internet:
1. There is a good overview of the chemical components here:
http://www.drugs.com/npp/hellebore.html
2. “…plants are more toxic in the spring, and toxicity decreases through the growing season.”
From a vet website: http://vet.purdue.edu/depts/addl/toxic/plant25.htm
3. And last but not least, from an abstract I found from a toxicology conference.
If you are going to make soup from random plants (not recommended), and you are carrying a plant identification book anyways, the correct order of foraging is:
Step 1: Find plant.
Step 2: Look up, and identify plant.
Step 3: Make and consume soup.
Seems this fellow mixed up steps 2 and 3.
http://www.eapcct.org/publicfile.php?folder=congress&file=Abstracts_SanFrancisco.pdf
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258. Ingestion of Veratrum Viride (False Hellebore) Leading to Bradycardia and Hypotension in a Frontier EnvironmentHendrickson RG,1,2 Spivak L,1,2 Herrick M,1,2 Ward-Fowler L.1,2 1Oregon Health and Science University, Portland, OR, USA;
2Oregon Poison Center, Portland, OR, USA.
Background: Veratrum viride (false hellebore) is a plant that contains veratrum alkaloids. We report a case of ingestion of veratrum viride leading to bradycardia and hypotension.
Case Report: A 34-year-old man and his 8-year-old son was camping in a remote area of Alaska. The father foraged for plants to make a soup. He ate several bites of the plant and then chopped several leaves to make the soup that was ingested by both the man and son. Shortly after ingesting the plant, the father developed lightheadedness and used a book to identify the plant as Veratrum viride. He contacted the poison center via satellite phone. Airlift was not possible and he was instructed to make his way to a hospital. He and his son hiked 10–15 miles to a set of train tracks in time to wave down the daily train traveling through the area. 4–6 hours after the ingestion and now on a train, the father contacted the poison center by satellite phone and reported lightheadedness, sweating, and vomiting in both him and his son. The poison center contacted pre-hospital agencies and both patients were picked up at the train by an ambulance. Both had hypotension and bradycardia: Father (60 bpm, 96/50 bp), Son (54 bpm, 80/50 bp). The poison center instructed pre-hospital personnel to treat the patients with charcoal and atropine and contacted the hospital. After a 90 min transport to a hospital, the son was asymptomatic and his vital signs had stabilized. The father had a heart rate of 30 and systolic bp of 80, and reported lightheadedness and double vision. He was treated with IV atropine and fluids and his vital signs improved (60 bpm, normal sinus, systolic pressure 120). Both recovered well and were discharged 24 hours after their ingestion. Case Discussion: Veratrum viride (false hellebore) intoxication is rare, but has been occasionally reported due to mistaken identification in foragers. This case demonstrates this rare toxicity and displays the complex coordination of treatment and transport necessary when providing poison center coverage for a frontier area.
Conclusion: We report a rare case of veratrum viride ingestion leading to vomiting, bradycardia, and hypotension.
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Mysterious, pop can stove stashin', gps totin', overnighter virgin, wannabe tentmaker and foul weather wuss who rides a thumper to the trailhead with wonderdog Max to hike the Chilliwack Valley
Chwk
Canada
4921 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 3:25 PM
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Interesting topic.
I guess mushrooms would be the top of the no-no list...the deadly ones are deadly without prejudice.
I always knew to be wary of waters that could potentially be contaminated by animals or humans...never occurred to be on the lookout for toxic plants! |
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Abbotsford, BC
Canada
217 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 3:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheShadow
Interesting topic.
I guess mushrooms would be the top of the no-no list...the deadly ones are deadly without prejudice.
I always knew to be wary of waters that could potentially be contaminated by animals or humans...never occurred to be on the lookout for toxic plants!
Any time you put plants in water, it's akin to making tea. That being said, when you make tea, you're dealing with a specific volume of water. Heat helps extract the plant chemicals. When you're talking running water, or a lake, you're talking huge volumes of water, so whatever plant chemicals are there should be significantly diluted in the water and the temperature is nowhere near as warm (usually). It's only if you're taking water from a small, stagnant water hole that you should be concerned. |
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| Eryne
Intermediate Member
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Chilliwack, BC
Canada
579 Posts |
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Port Moody, BC
Canada
733 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 4:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hike_in_van
Wally and Troy’s recent adventure at Pierce Lakes
Missed that TR. Link plz? |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
2666 Posts |
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| Eryne
Intermediate Member
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Chilliwack, BC
Canada
579 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 5:12 PM
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You're welcome.
Plants of Northern BC is a great reference that every serious or amateur outdoors person should get.
http://www.lonepinepublishing.com/cat/9781551051086
It is an easy guide to use, and you can use it to attempt to verify the identity of a potentially toxic plant before you eat it. There are versions for other regions, too. Best of all, it's a lightweight book, so everyone can carry one in their pack.
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Hope, BC
Canada
7131 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 5:47 PM
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Interesting topic that should be shared WITH photos if anyone else has some, this way it could prevent accidents from happening!
I was just informed of "Foxglove" yesterday in fact...
Seen here:
Apparently, unsure how accurate:
The foxglove looks lovely and the flowers are very nice to look at, but behind the elegant looking herb lay a real danger. Foxgloves are poisonous and should never be eaten or used domestically, even touching foxgloves can cause rashes and headaches.
PS: I touched one yesterday and had no idea it was that poisonous! |
Edited by - AcesHigh on 07/21/2008 5:48 PM |
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Popkum, BC
Canada
5902 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 6:25 PM
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Yes AH, you should not eat Fox Glove, but gardeners touch it all the time with no problems at all.
I find this to be a very interesting topic and was happy to know about the hellebore and hemlock, thanks Club Treadders! |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7131 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 6:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Flowing-Brook
Yes AH, you should not eat Fox Glove, but gardeners touch it all the time with no problems at all.
I find this to be a very interesting topic and was happy to know about the hellebore and hemlock, thanks Club Treadders!
even touching foxgloves can cause rashes and headaches.
Perhaps they are unaware of the dangers of touching them?
If I was a gardener and I was aware of the dangers of touching them, I'd be wearing gloves.
Every source I've seen says not to touch them, from the flower down to the root, not even excess water should be touched.
What you're saying is against what I am reading.
Caution: Skin irritant, do not touch the plant without gloves, causes rashes, headaches and nausea.
And:
Of the 20 Deadliest Plants on the Planet
Foxglove ranks #20 |
Edited by - AcesHigh on 07/21/2008 6:44 PM |
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n van, bc
Canada
830 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 6:45 PM
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I wouldn't be too worried, as long as you're not eating or rubbing plants on you. When you mention the toxins of plants not being filtered by drinking water, don't forget there are many poisonous species you have to worry about that do not leech toxins into the water.
Toxins, if leeching from some sort of plant, will probably be A. Diluted, or B. Quickly broken down. Luckily some more serious toxins, like found in the Rough Skinned Newt(same toxin as in blowfish--tetrodotoxin), that are stable, or not easily released into water. In many animal species, it takes a lot of effort for these toxins to be produced, therefore, animals are cautious in releasing them.
Of course, your point still is valid. There must be exceptions, but just before everyone thinks the world is gonna explode...
Are you sure a .2 micron waterfilter couldn't filter out plant toxins though? |
Edited by - the743 on 07/21/2008 6:57 PM |
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| Eryne
Intermediate Member
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Chilliwack, BC
Canada
579 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 7:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AcesHigh
quote:
Originally posted by Flowing-Brook
Yes AH, you should not eat Fox Glove, but gardeners touch it all the time with no problems at all.
I find this to be a very interesting topic and was happy to know about the hellebore and hemlock, thanks Club Treadders!
even touching foxgloves can cause rashes and headaches.
Perhaps they are unaware of the dangers of touching them?
If I was a gardener and I was aware of the dangers of touching them, I'd be wearing gloves.
Every source I've seen says not to touch them, from the flower down to the root, not even excess water should be touched.
What you're saying is against what I am reading.
Caution: Skin irritant, do not touch the plant without gloves, causes rashes, headaches and nausea.
And:
Of the 20 Deadliest Plants on the Planet
Foxglove ranks #20
This reminds me of the difference between theoretical and practical knowledge. Although it's easy to be an Internet Expert without real experience of a subject, often one ends up looking foolish.
Digitalis, a heart medication, is made from foxglove, and has been used for hundreds of years.
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Hope, BC
Canada
7131 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 7:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Eryne
This reminds me of the difference between theoretical and practical knowledge. Although it's easy to be an Internet Expert without real experience of a subject, often one ends up looking foolish.
Digitalis, a heart medication, is made from foxglove, and has been used for hundreds of years.
Very good, but Only a very very very little amount is used, as it is so deadly. It can easily kill you.
Next plant please... Someone? |
Edited by - AcesHigh on 07/21/2008 7:50 PM |
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Trail blazin', backcountry bushwackin', pine huntin', photo takin', long winded story teller
3839 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 11:12 PM
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| I think there is also the factor of individual resistance and alergic reactions to simular toxics in general. |
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Tumbler Ridge, BC
Canada
391 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2008 : 11:57 PM
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There's giant hogweed, an invasive species of concern mainly on Vancouver Island, mainly in suburban areas. Its sap is phototoxic, meaning if you get it on your skin and the sun hits you, it causes a chemical burn.
It grows eight to fifteen feet tall, looks a lot like cow parsnip and thrives in wet soil. It comes from the Caucasus Mtns in Europe. And the cool part.. they inspired the evil animal-plants in John Wyndham's novel Day of the Triffids. |
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Abbotsford, British Columbia
Canada
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 2:05 PM
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| X2 on the Hogweed. The sap does'nt even need much in the way of sunlight it just burns when you get it on you even if you think you have washed it off. I think we called it cowbane or something like that though. |
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| Eryne
Intermediate Member
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Chilliwack, BC
Canada
579 Posts |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
631 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2008 : 11:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gamos
There's giant hogweed, an invasive species of concern mainly on Vancouver Island, mainly in suburban areas. Its sap is phototoxic, meaning if you get it on your skin and the sun hits you, it causes a chemical burn.
It grows eight to fifteen feet tall, looks a lot like cow parsnip and thrives in wet soil. It comes from the Caucasus Mtns in Europe. And the cool part.. they inspired the evil animal-plants in John Wyndham's novel Day of the Triffids.
yes, also from the same source that Eryne quoted: http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/weedguid/ghogweed.htm
i know there's a thread about giant hogsweed in this forum somewhere... |
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 | Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2008 : 11:11 AM
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| Cascara isn't poisonous per se, but it is a very powerful laxative. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
631 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2008 : 11:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by AcesHigh
quote:
Originally posted by Flowing-Brook
Yes AH, you should not eat Fox Glove, but gardeners touch it all the time with no problems at all.
I find this to be a very interesting topic and was happy to know about the hellebore and hemlock, thanks Club Treadders!
even touching foxgloves can cause rashes and headaches.
Perhaps they are unaware of the dangers of touching them?
If I was a gardener and I was aware of the dangers of touching them, I'd be wearing gloves.
Every source I've seen says not to touch them, from the flower down to the root, not even excess water should be touched.
What you're saying is against what I am reading.
Caution: Skin irritant, do not touch the plant without gloves, causes rashes, headaches and nausea.
And:
Of the 20 Deadliest Plants on the Planet
Foxglove ranks #20
as a kid i used to play with foxglove all the time  and i'm not dead yet... nor do i remember having any adverse effects from it either. wait, maybe that's what happened...   |
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Hope, BC
Canada
7131 Posts |
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Toxic Plants in BC
