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1078 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2012 : 6:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by path finder
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Some people carry bear spray because they believe it may offer some protection against an event that has a low probability of occurring (though obviously the estimation of this likelihood varies wildly among people), but could have an undesirable consequence! They believe the pros of this action outweigh the cons.
And you could also say the same about not carrying and using bear spray (if necessary), that there could be an undesirable consequence! I think that anyone that unfortunately was in a position where they were attacked or stalked by a bear, would appreciate having something to help defend themselves, and potentially prevent serious injury or death.
RIGHT...that's what I just said! Again, it's a situation with many factors, and each person weighs them...just like innumerable other situations. You could also carry a rifle, wrap yourself in bubble wrap, stay at home (don't laugh..some people do this!)....based on a fear of bears. All are equivalent in basic reasoning to your insurance analogy.
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1078 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2012 : 6:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Release
quote:
Some people carry bear spray because they believe it may offer some protection against an event that has a low probability of occurring (though obviously the estimation of this likelihood varies wildly among people), but could have an undesirable consequence!
No offense but I really don't understand this statement. Naturally just about anything can produce undesired consequences. You could carry a rifle instead of bear spray and blow your foot off or your partners head off at the moment of truth as well. So? I don't see your point.
If you don't want to carry anything, fine that's certainly your choice and imo a perfectly viable one,but in the event of an actual bear attack it is neither safer for you OR the bear since most bears who kill/attack are hunted down and killed themselves.
ht've died.
ROFL! I just wrote something similar in reply, before reaching your post. (see a post I made above)
To be honest, I don't see the point either...I though path finder was trying to argue that: homeowners insurance is a good idea, therefore being analogous, bear spray is a good idea. He says that he wasn't, and I take him at his word. The remaining point....is simply that the reasoning is analogous (and he is quite right about that), even though the situation, and thus conclusion, may be entirely different. You could just as correctly say: the reasoning behind carrying bear spray is directly analogous to people who don't leave their home for fear of being exposed to pathogens! Well...that's true...it is! Of course, that one doesn't sound as flattering as homeowners inurance, since most of us have decided it's worth the risk to leave the house!
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521 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2012 : 9:18 PM
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quote:
To be honest, I don't see the point either...I though path finder was trying to argue that: homeowners insurance is a good idea, therefore being analogous, bear spray is a good idea. He says that he wasn't, and I take him at his word. The remaining point....is simply that the reasoning is analogous (and he is quite right about that), even though the situation, and thus conclusion, may be entirely different. You could just as correctly say: the reasoning behind carrying bear spray is directly analogous to people who don't leave their home for fear of being exposed to pathogens! Well...that's true...it is! Of course, that one doesn't sound as flattering as homeowners inurance, since most of us have decided it's worth the risk to leave the house!
Carrying bear spray allows you to get out there (with all the bears) and face them, reducing your risk. You are not in any way significantly changing your behavior by staying at home or having to wrap yourself in armor to protect yourself, LOL! It's just one small item you carry with you, and is like having insurance for your protection. |
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3022 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2012 : 11:42 PM
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| walk softly and carry a big stick. |
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65 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2012 : 07:06 AM
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I think that if a bear is really mad and wants to kill you, it will kill you regardless of being sprayed or partially sprayed or at least injure you if you do manage to spray it. I believe (though never having done so) using spray will cause a bluffing bear or curious bear to run away and that spraying a bear is nasty. But, in my opinion, if a bear is that close that you can spray it, then it is too close. Bears are curious and in most of their range, hungry and must forage all day long. So what is the line between being curious and being an opportunistic feeder? Bears should not be sniffing around me - ever- what do they think I am - potential lunch? If I laid down and played dead would it walk away? Would it start to nibble? I think I will try the spray first.
As for carrying a gun- just not practical. (too awkward to carry, extra weight, need practice, can't use it everywhere, lethal, not always at ones side etc.)
As for a bfk, what ever gives a person peace of mind - real or imagined. I'm not a ninja so I don't carry one.
In any case the odds of a rogue bear attack are remote and all the bears I have encountered in the bush have moved off without much encouragement from me. (I've never needed to use spray)
I really don't want to be a hiking bundle of nerves because of fear of bears - what fun is that? So I sometimes carry spray especially if I am hiking alone- it does give me some peace of mind. |
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2421 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2012 : 11:39 AM
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Agree. Makes lots of noise and you're unlikely to ever meet a bear up close. That protects the bear and it protects you.
And if you meet a hungry young male that's having a hard time learning to hunt, you still have the bear spray just in case. |
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521 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2012 : 1:02 PM
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quote:
I think that if a bear is really mad and wants to kill you, it will kill you regardless of being sprayed or partially sprayed or at least injure you if you do manage to spray it. I believe (though never having done so) using spray will cause a bluffing bear or curious bear to run away and that spraying a bear is nasty. But, in my opinion, if a bear is that close that you can spray it, then it is too close. Bears are curious and in most of their range, hungry and must forage all day long. So what is the line between being curious and being an opportunistic feeder? Bears should not be sniffing around me - ever- what do they think I am - potential lunch? If I laid down and played dead would it walk away? Would it start to nibble? I think I will try the spray first.
This is an good reference on the 4 primary types of reactions from a black bear encounter:
http://www.algonquinpark.on.ca/visit/recreational_activites/black-bear-safety-rules.php
You should be able to determine which category the bear encounter falls into and then react appropriately. If a bear is coming around to sniff and perhaps nibble, I would treat it as a predatory bear. |
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Calgary, AB
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 5:32 PM
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Not sure if you're seen this in another thread but I'll copy it over just in case
IIRC this was one of many research done in the US and bear spay sold in US contains twice irritant compared to spray sold here in Canada due to some obscure regulations in place. Feel free to correct me - just a rumor I heard never had a change to confirm it. If so I suspect that stellar success rate in US has very limited application to our conditions in Canada.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf
Smith et al. Efficacy of Bear Spray
After being sprayed, 3 bears (43%, 3 of 7) returned, 3 did not return
(43%, 3 of 7), and one (14%, 1 of 7) did not leave the
general area.
In 7% (5 of 71) of bear spray incidents, wind was reported
to have interfered with spray accuracy, although it reached
bears in all cases. In 14% (10 of 71) of bear spray incidents,
users reported spray having negative side effects upon
themselves, ranging from minor irritation (11%, 8 of 71) to
near incapacitation (3%, 2 of 71).
On 10 occasions (14%, 10 of 71) the sight and sound
associated with spray release were reported as key factors in
changing bear behavior. In 67 spray incidents for which
distance was reported, the mean distance between user and
bear at the time of spraying was 4 m (range 1-15 m). One
user commented that he had ''squarely hit the bear'' at 10 m,
although at distances .5 m success was variable. When
bears were sprayed at 3 m (33 cases), the spray always
enveloped the bear, with only one resulting in a failure to
deter the attacking bear.
Three persons (,2% of the 175 persons involved in 71
separate incidents) suffered injury by bears that had been
sprayed with bear deterrent. One person halted the
attacking bear by spraying it at close range in the face,
and the other 2 persons were unable to spray a second dose
because the initial attack knocked the spray canister from
their hands. Nonetheless, only one of the 3 reported that the
spray had failed to protect them. No mechanical failures of
spray canisters were reported in the 71 cases.
We analyzed 11 incidents of spray misuse that resulted in
unintended consequences. In 45% (5 of 11) of incidents,
persons applied spray to objects they hoped to protect from
damage by curious bears; these efforts all failed. In 2
instances (18%), persons applied sprays as a zonal repellent
but reported bears inordinately attracted to these locations
(i.e., tent and on river bank). In 2 instances (18%), persons
reported bears attracted to spray residues following use of
bear spray for practice purposes. Repeated sprays (n ΒΌ 5)
with fully pressurized cans showed mean exit velocities
.112 6 4 km/hr (70 6 2 miles/hr).
[...]
In Alaska, bear spray was highly effective in
dealing with all 3 species of North American bears, although
more data on polar bear responses is needed. Persons
working and recreating in bear habitat should feel confident
that they are safe if carrying bear spray. Although bear spray
was 92% effective by our definition of success, it is
important to note that 98% of persons carrying it were
uninjured after a close encounter with bears.
[...]
"Spray was deemed successful when the undesirable behavior of the bear
was stopped."
More reading:
http://riflechair.blogspot.ca/2010/07/bears-dangerous-beliefs-and.html
(After some discussion with the author we both agreed that encounters near beaten trails are potentially MORE dangerous due to bears habituated to human presence.)
http://rodandgun.netfirms.com/blog/Bear_Behaviour.pdf
http://rodandgun.netfirms.com/blog/Human_Response_to_Bears.pdf
Hope someone finds it useful. |
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Finally stopping that crazy suffering that is ice, climbing to concentrate on great ski tours!
3505 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 6:49 PM
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Most spray in Canada is labelled as 1%, and in the US, as 2%. But, in Canada, most brands separate the active ingredients, so the contents are usually about the same.
So, in the US, it might say: 2.0% Capsaicin and related Capsaicinoids, but in Canada it might read: 1.0% Capsaicin and 1.0% related Capsaicinoids
EPA in the US states that for bear spray, it must be no less than 1% total, and no more than 2% total. |
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Calgary, AB
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 7:03 PM
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| That's possible source of the confusion. Thanks. |
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505 Posts |
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Study says bear spray more effective than guns
