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Bowen Island, BC
Canada
614 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 1:11 PM
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I am wondering about the future of the postings to this site.
There are many trip reports, editorial opinions, and thoughtful exchanges of ideas that reflect the wisdom of our community, the conditions on the landscape, as well as provide sage advice on relevant topics such as personal development, how to behave when traveling in our wilderness, gear, etc.
There is also a real niche community here. It is made up of people who value our natural environment, and who are willing to endure some - or considerable – physical discomfort to experience our spectacular backcountry using only muscle-powered travel. It is an unusual cohort because it is composed largely of people who may enjoy the society, but are not primarily assembled for a social purpose.
It is also a community of the Internet. In that sense, it is a new phenomenon. While the Internet has provided software such as listserves and newsgroups for years, their use has not received the widespread appeal of a forum such as the Message Board section of ClubTread. To quantify the youth of CT, as I write there are 2347 trip reports on 94 pages with the first started by LongShadow as recently as April of 2003. There are other somewhat similar communities that have seen some participation from me such as TelemarkTips.com, CascadeClimbers.com and Bivouac.com. I am a huge fan of the latter; but it is a catalogue of mountains, and its principals wish it to remain an encyclopedia with lots of contributors - but it is not to be a community. Although it welcomes members from afar, CT's stated purpose has a specific geographic focus. This, and the special people here, has earned my loyalty and participation. I have found a gentle community of real people, many of whom come to know each other, meet in the hills, and sometimes assemble for social purposes.
Therefore this community is a phenomenon. Its special feature is that almost every manifestation of this cohort is expressed, debated, editorialized, photographed and recorded in the forum. Events are posted often within hours of their occurrence.
While some comments are brief, almost every thread is started by someone taking the time to write and to illustrate their point or their story in a thoughtful and cogent manner. This is done in spite of the software, which does not contribute to the ease of major posts. This is not a criticism; it is just the state of the art of current forum software. The message box is small and there is no spell-check or grammar-check. The systems for formatting and adding images amount to learning to write html code, and have not the simplicity of assembling a PowerPoint presentation. And yet, the majority of people here are willing to learn the codes, and to write their articles off-line, probably in a word processor.
In that sense, I think that contributors are doing more than sticking a note on a message board; they are publishing an article, which may (or may not) become part of the permanent record of the community. It is, then, a form of journalism. It is creating a true history of our time.
Already the volume of wisdom, observations, editorials, humour and trivia that exists as data on ClubTread's disks is huge, and growing.
What will become of these data? Often before a hike, or before I write, I will search CT to see what has already appeared about that destination or subject. Will I always be able to do that? Will my grandchildren be able to read HoweSound's firsthand accounts of his adventures?
What do the current contributors wish for the record they are creating?
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Vernon, Okanagan, BC
Canada
196 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 1:25 PM
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Very interesting question, howesound. It would be nice if this site always were up and running, years from now. But who knows how long LongShadow will want to be responsible for this site. Maybe he has designated 'an heir to the throne'?
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I gotta hike... I don't care where, but I gotta hike! |
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summerland, bc
Canada
653 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 1:35 PM
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with the popularity of this site and the amount of valuable info on it I could see longshadow being presented with an offer he cant refuse and things changing to a pay site,
It sucks to look at it that way but the amount of members and traffic hear makes it a very interesting business opportunity hopefully such a change is far far down the line, |
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 Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13057 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 1:57 PM
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That's something I've thought about a lot, Howesound 
What I like best about the site is that it gives us all a chance to share our experiences in the backcountry and communicate with like minded people. When I write a report, for example, I try to impart the sense of adventure to the reader and highlight the unique or interesting things about the excursion.I also try to keep in mind those who need a little more guidance may be reading the report as well. We all have different and varying points of view, and this forum allows for a wide range of expression.
When I can, I like to spend time reading everyone's reports and finding out their opinions. I also feel that it's very important to make relevant comments where they might be needed or appreciated. Everyone can benefit from additional information or a kind word once in a while.The outdoors are a passion, and it's all about having fun, isn't it ?
The overall climate of our board has remained largely positive and criticism is generally constructive, and I'd like to see that remain so. In another aspect, I have always hoped to see new members make contributions to the site. This can take time to evolve, so those of us who've been around a while need to foster an attitude of acceptance and intelligence. Remember that hike up Seymour or Diez Vistas that you've done so many times ? Maybe it's someone else's first hike . Perhaps there's something you can say to add to that person's experience which will make it even more enjoyable for them. Don't forget that there will be younger and/or new hikers perusing the site and forging their way as time rolls on. Some will do fine unattended, others will need help....
While the kidding and general discussion about anything or nothing are lots of fun, this site has managed to stay topical and become a community and source of information with a heart, which is no mean feat in itself. A note to anyone out there: Don't hold back, get out that camera, get out on the trails, tell us where you've been, ask a question, join a hike. It's bound to change you for the better.
These things, to me, are what make our site unique 
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opinionated-stove huggin'-fleece wearin'-arse burnin' hill virgin
Here
Canada
4642 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 2:10 PM
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Very interesting....
I relate to howesound's concerns about the preservation of historic CT posts. The information aquired over the years is certainly a legacy worth saving. An example of my apprehension is from the decaying, somewhat antiquated, and cumbersome database of valuable trip reports over on Bivouac.com...there are some old Randy Stoltmann TRs still on that site which are priceless to me and I would hate to see them lost for all time because the site admin lost interest in making sure they were properly preserved. The lack of interest in updating the software over there has certainly led to my concern so I can see how someone can feel the same about information on CT.
It's a fact of life that forums will rise and fall on the internet like everything else. Databases take up server space and cost money to maintain. Who's going to have the resources to keep all this information in perpetuity? Rest assured that as long as Longshadow is interested in maintaining and updating ClubTread, that we are in good hands. The best way to see that the lifespan of CT is prolonged is to keep up with good quality posts which require very little work or moderation on his part. As for saving the information, we all have the capability of saving our favorite pieces.
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"My name is Hiker Boy and I approved this message"  |
Edited by - Hiker Boy on 05/23/2006 3:26 PM |
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Coquitlam, British Columbia
Canada
1727 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 4:39 PM
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I believe this site is growing like a tree and right now, this young tree is branching outwards in numerous directions creating a 'web' of stems, branches and leaves that will be years in maturing. But eventually the 'tree' will grow to a climax with its numerous branches, stems and twigs stretching out in all directions. Then slowly, as this site one day looses popularity, the tree will slowly dire, one branch at a time until just the stem remains and then quickly, the stem to will die.
For this is the life of a tree...there are my words of wisdom...take away from them what you will... |
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Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13057 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 5:58 PM
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Well, this tree is over 500 years old, so.... |
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 | Dru
Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 6:09 PM
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Media evolves faster every day.
We can read a book that was printed in 1500 AD, iff we knowwe hoew thee tongge hast werked - but can we view a LaserDisc from 1989? Probably not.
You can Google "dead media project" to find out a lot more.
In the meantime - don't hold out any hopes for the longevity or long term usability of any current medium. Including t3h 1nt3rn3t
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To be human is to suffer. To be fully human is to suffer knowingly. |
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 Big pack hiker who sleeps with bears in tent and falls on slippery logs
Langley, BC
Canada
7647 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 11:33 PM
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Great post... And very well thought out discussion points.
This topic came up a couple years ago and I'll give the same assurances that I did back then.
The plan to to keep it going! I enjoy the community, personalities, information, and friendships way too much to see it disappear. The domain is regi'd till 2009, and I plan to renew it!
I just got new server equipment that I'll be putting in place - and additional hard disk space to support photos. The additional features that I've been talking about are intended to make the content on the site that much more rich and easier to locate. The community aspect will always be a part of the site. The plan is not to let the technology aspect slide, as that will be a vital backbone.
I too feel that the information on here is something that needs to be cherished and enjoyed by the community for years to come. Hiker Boy makes an excellent point in that it is your contributions that make the community. If high quality content such as trip reports continue to be posted, it will set examples for people that start on the site and makes the knowledge base that much more valuable.
Don't worry. It'll be here tomorrow and many tomorrow's after that.
Cheers! |
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ass wigglin, cheese lovin, 4x4 drivin, apostrophe hatin, hiking chick who loves camping on snow
spaceship..
Canada
7209 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 11:42 PM
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Thanks Longshadow, I look forward to the days of surfin' CT while sitting in my rocking chair....many years from now 
Although I wonder if we'll be talking about boiled goretex then
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Coffee swillin', wine lovin', Owl fearin' Andie McDowell stunt double, who sports retro gear
Vancouver, BC
5466 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 11:52 PM
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quote:
Although I wonder if we'll be talking about boiled goretex then
LOL Shadee!! Whatever gear we have now will be considered retro by then!!
I hadn't thought about this site as an historical record, but you are right....these are stories that should be preserved if at all possible. |
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Fowl photographin, animal lovin, thread trollin, dry bag humpin, canoe canoodler
Vancouver, BC
Canada
4039 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 09:32 AM
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I often feel rather historical by the time I get around to posting a trip report, or at least my bones do. I don’t have to wait till I’m old for that that rocking chair do I?
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Fleece thong wearin, Buntzen Lurkin, mystic poet mountain man and international spokesman of the friends of the white squirrel society
Port Moody, B.C.
Canada
5910 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 09:42 AM
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Very well thought out Robert. Like most here I have a ton of photos to look back on when I get old + I have saved my trip reports on disk.
Maybe Jim's heir's will keep this going ( if the net still is around) for years to come. Myself, I hope to be posting into my 70's.
"Me and the Misses have just done Buntzen lake for the 2,000th dam time" ,"got lost and took whole day to get back to the car"!
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No Trail is Long with Good Company.
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Bowen Island, BC
Canada
614 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 7:06 PM
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Two ideas contributed to starting this thread.
The first was the enormous amount of work that conscientious posters must contribute to create, say, a detailed and illustrated trip report. I can see that often the photographs have been lovingly enhanced and cropped in Photoshop, and then thoughtfully integrated into a story. As a member, I appreciate the time and effort provided for my reading and learning. This is not a trivial contribution to our community.
Second, I have a sense of the value of collecting the history of our community and culture. For eight years, as a producer of planetarium shows in Toronto, my job title revealed that I was a member of the curatorial staff of the Royal Ontario Museum. Thereafter, as director of the Manitoba Planetarium, I was part of the Manitoba Museum. Particularly in the second assignment, I was aware of the need to collect the oral history of Manitoba. Among my generation were the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the immigrants who came to Canada for the free lands at the end of the 1800s and early 1900s. There was a race to capture those stories of the trip to Canada and those first winters in this new land from people who heard it from those who lived it. In the north, the old ways and technologies of the Dene and Inuit are a vital part of Canada that are being supplanted by the European cultures.
ClubTread is unlike most forums I've experienced. The generic software is designed to allow the participants to create a pseudonym and, if they wish, to hide their real identities. There seems to be an arc of participation here. The newbie lurks for a while, and then sets up an account with the pseudonym. If this is really someone who does head into the backcountry and becomes a contributor, it is only a short time before the community earns the trust of the person. Many people reveal their true identity in their Profile, and even allow pictures of themselves to be posted. Most of the regulars here know the real identities of each other. Therefore, unlike many of the online communities, this is a cohort of real people.
Since this forum reflects the behaviour and values of a group of self-selected people with a specific geographic orientation, I would imagine that at some point an academic will recognize the importance of capturing the musings, opinions, observations and humor of this group.
Oh, I also think that when I can no longer go to the hills, I'd like to be able to read what we all once were able to accomplish while there were still local glaciers.
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opinionated-stove huggin'-fleece wearin'-arse burnin' hill virgin
Here
Canada
4642 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 8:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by howesound
ClubTread is unlike most forums I've experienced. The generic software is designed to allow the participants to create a pseudonym and, if they wish, to hide their real identities. There seems to be an arc of participation here. The newbie lurks for a while, and then sets up an account with the pseudonym. If this is really someone who does head into the backcountry and becomes a contributor, it is only a short time before the community earns the trust of the person. Many people reveal their true identity in their Profile, and even allow pictures of themselves to be posted. Most of the regulars here know the real identities of each other. Therefore, unlike many of the online communities, this is a cohort of real people.
howesound, While I agree with your sentiments, I don't necessarily agree with the above. While I don't think your concerns are invalid, I do think they are a little overblown. To bring a little reality back and as a long time contributor of many online hiking forums, the only thing I see which makes ClubTread unique above all others is it's geographical focus. In fact, other than for the Canadian content, it's almost indistinguishable from any other forum. They all have a sense of community and the regulars on all of the other forums I have ever been a member on continue to meet up for trips and socials. (I still get together on a regular basis with a group of regular posters I got to know from a forum back in 1997.) Most posters signup on accounts using anonymous trail names. Many have just as great trip reports and pictures albeit not local. Even the behaviors of many of the members on CT follow pretty much what had been played out on other forums ad infinitum. This doesn't mean I don't think CT and the CT community isn't great, just not unique enough to justify all the fuss. As others have said, we have to take some of our own personal responsability and save our own material if we value it.
On a related issue...I was posting on another forum during the horrible 9/11 period of time. Someone later felt strongly enough about the historic content of our discussion to have our posts around that date submitted to a federal archive which was set up for that purpose....a snap shot of people thoughts about and on that tragic day from all sorts of different sources.
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"My name is Hiker Boy and I approved this message" |
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Outward Bound author of the Seinfeld Thread, who builds his own snowshoes
Troy, MT
USA
3125 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 3:39 PM
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I think it will be great to one day look back on everything that has been contributed here, and look at the trips we all went on, although then we might be wondering if a hover car could take off from a conveyor belt
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Bryan |
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Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 4:16 PM
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quote:
Many people reveal their true identity in their Profile, and even allow pictures of themselves to be posted. Most of the regulars here know the real identities of each other.
I have been faking it...
Here is a photo of the REAL me!
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To be human is to suffer. To be fully human is to suffer knowingly. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1012 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 4:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by LongShadow
The plan to to keep it going! I enjoy the community, personalities, information, and friendships way too much to see it disappear. The domain is regi'd till 2009, and I plan to renew it!
Don't worry. It'll be here tomorrow and many tomorrow's after that.
Cheers!
THANKS Jim |
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Coquitlam, British Columbia
Canada
1727 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2006 : 4:53 PM
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| Hope this site is around for many more years left-and the tree isn't logged. |
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ClubTread Legacy
