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Port Moody, BC
Canada
544 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 09:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackPete
It's a nice idea to have something capable of climbing the toughest trails, but if I only go on like 2-3 trails a year
If you're only hiking 2-3 times a year, then skip the 2nd vehicle and just avoid trails that require 4x4 or high clearance. To most trails you can drive in a Civic. |
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Port Moody, BC
Canada
544 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 09:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by THE EDJ
I'm a big fan of the Subaru Forester. If modifying cars doesn't scare you, you can have a very capable Forester without too much time or effort.
Strut spacers with longer studs (lots of options here).
Lifting springs (King springs are the way to go).
Beefier tires (General Grabber's are popular).
Front skid plate, rear diff cover (lots of options, I prefer Primitive Racing's stuff).
Or you can just buy a Wrangler, and that will be 10x more off road capable than any built up mini-van (aka Forester). That way you at least won't have to worry about leaving your both bumpers in the first medium sized cross ditch.
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Coquitlam, BC
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 10:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnold
quote:
Originally posted by BlackPete
It's a nice idea to have something capable of climbing the toughest trails, but if I only go on like 2-3 trails a year
If you're only hiking 2-3 times a year, then skip the 2nd vehicle and just avoid trails that require 4x4 or high clearance. To most trails you can drive in a Civic.
I should clarify that I meant 2-3 trails that require 4x4 access, not trails in general. I generally hike every weekend, but those super long approaches are starting to get to me. I've been eying a lot of the Chilliwack area trails lately but most of them require a sturdier vehicle to make it to the TH.
So if we're getting a secondary vehicle for the wife, might as well kill two birds with one stone.
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Coquitlam, BC
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 10:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnold
[quote]Or you can just buy a Wrangler, and that will be 10x more off road capable than any built up mini-van (aka Forester). That way you at least won't have to worry about leaving your both bumpers in the first medium sized cross ditch.
Like I said, it's a nice idea to have a dedicated off-road vehicle but again... fuel economy, reality of actually NEEDING that 4x4 capability, etc., etc., one has to be more conservative these days.
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Squamish, British Columbia
Canada
1008 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 11:02 AM
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Fortuitous bump.
Been mulling over my options for a 4x4. Something that would be capable of driving something like English Main FSR at the North East End of Harrison lake, or all the way to the boulders on the Shannon Creek FSR. (i.e. semi-deep waterbars, loose dirt and stones, compacted snow)
For my needs it really needs to be a dirtbag vehicle also. Something I could live out of and put a queensize mattress in the back at a squeeze. Checking out climber parking lots is a great way to see what others are using, but they seldom need HC or 4x4.
Delica? Tacoma with a canopy?
Let's say a budget of 5k. I could go higher but I think I should be able to get some 90's model of whatever I decide on for around that much. I don't need modcons or accessories, just functionality.
Where should I be looking also? I check craigslist and kijiji. Is that it?
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Van, BC
Canada
2793 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 11:34 AM
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I'm still really big on my XTerra - had it 2 years now and it's perfect for me and what I need. Nice ground clearance, great offroad (I upgraded the tyres to a good set of All Terrains), gets me far up the logging roads, even the deactivated ones with many water bars (shakes fist at Tenas Creek FSR). Drop the back seats and I can fit my 6'2" frame in without having to sleep diagonal.
Only downside is it isn't the best on mileage... but what large 4wd SUV is?
Might be a bit out of your range leimrod, but I'd at least keep my eye out as you search. As for where, those two sites of course - no harm in keeping an eye out on the used car lots, dealer and otherwise... occasionally some good deals even there (especially if gas prices are/stay high, everyone is offloading their poor mileage SUVs, and the dealers are stuck with a lot of inventory they want to offload).
-Ryan
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Sunshine Coast, BC
Canada
251 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 2:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by leimrod
Fortuitous bump.
Delica? Tacoma with a canopy?
Let's say a budget of 5k. I could go higher but I think I should be able to get some 90's model of whatever I decide on for around that much. I don't need modcons or accessories, just functionality.
Where should I be looking also? I check craigslist and kijiji. Is that it/
for the budget your looking at you might consider a Jeep Grand Cherokee, in the 1999-2001 range. There's a bunch around on Craigslist. We've had great success with selec-trac, trail-rated versions of these vehicles. Make sure auto transmission is good, or it will cost $5K to replace it! We still have a 2004 model which is our main off-road slugger. Works great, even with the 6 cyl engine.
from 1989-2004 we ran an engineering consultancy that leased some 150 4x4 vehicles, of all types. Hands down the toughest, most reliable off-road truck was the bog standard Ford F150, 4x4 pickup, with manual transmission. Put a canopy on it and presto, you're away. They are big though, but durable. We still have some of these left, with 300K Km, still running fine. The downsized Ford Ranger was ok too, but kind of flimsy. The frames cracked after years of ugly, rough bella coola work
Best grunting. climbing vehicle was always the Jeep Wrangler, trail-rated, or similar model.
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Edited by - xj6response on 05/20/2012 2:22 PM |
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Burnaby, BC
Canada
908 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 5:50 PM
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| ahh who needs all these fancy vehicles I drive my Toyota Yaris where it should never go and it is fine! |
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Port Moody, BC
Canada
544 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 10:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by xj6response
Make sure auto transmission is good, or it will cost $5K to replace it!
5k?! Obviously, the auto transmission needs to work, but you could get a used one for around $500, and maybe pay another $500 to have someone swap it with the old one. That's what I did back in the day, only I installed it myself, so was only out $500. |
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Port Moody, BC
Canada
544 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 10:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackPete
quote:
Originally posted by Arnold
[quote]Or you can just buy a Wrangler, and that will be 10x more off road capable than any built up mini-van (aka Forester). That way you at least won't have to worry about leaving your both bumpers in the first medium sized cross ditch.
Like I said, it's a nice idea to have a dedicated off-road vehicle but again... fuel economy, reality of actually NEEDING that 4x4 capability, etc., etc., one has to be more conservative these days.
Yeah, you have to choose one here, either really good off road capability and crappy mileage, or ok mileage and ok off road capability. If you're only going to drive roads like Cheam or upper Harrison West FSR, then a cross over should be fine. Although, that would be the end for it, meaning you can't really progress from there. I wouldn't take a cross over to, say, the 4wd road at the Statlu lake trailhead. That would be pushing it.
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Port Moody, BC
Canada
544 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2012 : 11:01 PM
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And here's why I think cross overs are a joke for off road driving.
I found this Element at the end of Texas Creek FSR, which has a lot of very mild cross ditches at the far end. Sure, he made it, and he certainly saved a few bucks on gas... but then he'll be spending money at the body shop. Damage front, back, and under:
   
Here's a Forester I found on the web:
Here's another Forester on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJE4Mv5E3E0
I'm sure they all saved some gas money.
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Edited by - Arnold on 05/20/2012 11:03 PM |
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Penticton, BC
Canada
89 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 11:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnold
Or you can just buy a Wrangler, and that will be 10x more off road capable than any built up mini-van (aka Forester). That way you at least won't have to worry about leaving your both bumpers in the first medium sized cross ditch.
You've completely missed the point. For some (myself included), it's not about having the most off road capable vehicle. Sure a stock Jeep may get the job done, if you get the right one. Even then, you are still going to have to spend some time and money to truly make any Jeep "trail worthy". But we aren't talking about crawlin' up 4x4 trails. We are talking about driving up rough, often steep, somewhat technical back country roads where your Honda Civic or Toyota Prius shouldn't go. I want a solid, comfortable daily driver that can handle the demands of my weekend adventures.
There are a number of vehicles that can meet those needs, the Forester included. Why? Well, it's actually not even close to a "built-up minivan" (Subaru doesn't make a mini-van!). It has a solid chassis and a legitimate AWD system (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw) that can and will get the job done. It's comfortable for driving to and from work and has all the modern creature comforts one could want without being harsh or too noisy. There is a lot of aftermarket support and options, which makes parts relatively cheap and easy to come by. The Forester is easy to modify and doesn't actually require much to make it capable enough to deal with most BC backroads.
The Forester isn't a compromise; it's a brilliant solution to finding a car that handles every day driving duties in comfort and style, and will confidently get you a little off of the beaten path on the weekend.
I'm not arrogant enough to say it's the best car, or the only car for the job, it's just what I've chosen because I like it. |
Edited by - THE EDJ on 05/21/2012 11:07 AM |
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Van., BC
Canada
274 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 11:17 AM
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I've been driving Nissan 4x4 pickups since 1992. First a 1985 from 2002 to 2007, then a 1995 from 2007 to present.
The 1985 was a great truck but the back bumper was too long and constantly hung up exiting water bars.
The 1995 has also hung up the back bumper on occasion driving it upwards to the point that I couldn't open the tailgate.
Both trucks are great 4x4 vehicles and the 1985 was geared so low in bull low that I swear it could climb trees. The are short enough and small enough to use in the city, can turn around on the narrowest of overgrown old logging roads, and big enough in the back to sleep two people.
Both my trucks had extra cabs. I love that feature. You need that room for personal gear. Day pack, camera, binoculars, water bottles extra clothing, a few tools, and then the whole pickup bed can hold your camping gear. I often have my thermarest and sleeping bag bed made up on one side of the canopy and all the camping gear piled on the other side.
Amazing amount of room with a hi-rise canopy. One trip I brought my bicycle for some ranch trail deer hunting in the Cariboo-Chilcotin plus camping gear for ten days and came back with all my stuff plus two deer stuffed in there too.
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Edited by - Michel on 05/21/2012 1:18 PM |
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18 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 12:41 PM
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As many of the other posters have mentioned, it really depends on the maximum off road capability you are after. I have a 2012 Wrangler 4 door Rubicon with the new 3.6L Pentastar engine / 6 speed manual and I can definitely recommend this as a mid $30's option. The fuel economy is way, way better than the old ones - I get around 9L/100km on the highway and 12-13L/100km driving around North Vancouver. My friends with X-Terras are all jealous of this. The only issue with the jeep that I have is that the back seat is damn uncomfortable for anyone riding back there as it won't recline past vertical. The main reason I purchased the Jeep was that I wanted a small 4WD SUV with a manual transmission, and it's pretty much the Jeep and X-Terra only with a manual option these days.
Do I need the off road capability of a Rubicon? Not really. I like to head up the Squamish/Elaho, Hurley, Pemberton and others valleys for spring touring and summer scrambling. My wife's 2002 Highlander V6 AWD does the job fine 95% of the time - the difference between the Highlander and the Jeep might be 20-25 minutes of extra walking. The rear seats fold down to form a full 6 foot flat floor that will accommodate two full length thermarests side by side, something the Wrangler obviously won't do. This is a big plus when car camping. If you are thinking about a Highlander, get the first generation (2001-06) - it is more capable off road than the later models as it doesn't have any road orientated traction control getting in the way. On both our vehicles we run Hankook Dynapro ATM tires.
Ultimate vehicle? Something small, 4WD, manual, and diesel. I miss my old '03 Mazda BT2500 Turbo Diesel that we owned while living on the west coast of New Zealand for a few years. Wish it could have come back here with me.  |
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Edmonton, AB
Canada
217 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 4:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rodin
Ultimate vehicle? Something small, 4WD, manual, and diesel. I miss my old '03 Mazda BT2500 Turbo Diesel that we owned while living on the west coast of New Zealand for a few years. Wish it could have come back here with me.
Sounds like you'd really like the new Mazda CX-5. Small, AWD, 6-speed manual and a lovely turbodiesel. Oh wait, that's the European spec version. Here, they don't offer the turbodiesel, and you can't get a manual transmission with AWD. It's just stupid. |
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Vancouver
1820 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2012 : 6:34 PM
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If I had about $5000 to spend, I'd go looking for a pre-2007 Suzuki XL-7. Same as a previous generation Grand Vitara, but with a longer wheelbase and more creature comforts. Rugged but also civilized. Solid truck frame, but small enough to get decent mileage. Comes with a low range and skid plates.
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Coquitlam, BC
Canada
84 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 12:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by THE EDJ
You've completely missed the point. For some (myself included), it's not about having the most off road capable vehicle. Sure a stock Jeep may get the job done, if you get the right one. Even then, you are still going to have to spend some time and money to truly make any Jeep "trail worthy". But we aren't talking about crawlin' up 4x4 trails. We are talking about driving up rough, often steep, somewhat technical back country roads where your Honda Civic or Toyota Prius shouldn't go. I want a solid, comfortable daily driver that can handle the demands of my weekend adventures.
Yep, this was what I was trying to articulate as well. :D
I must say that since I started reading these forums, the Forester is now on my list where I hadn't considered it before. It does look like a pretty sweet design, and seems to be well suited to the type of trails I had in mind (Cheam being the "max", with Tricouni and Slesse (Nesakwatch FSR) being the "norm"). Generally places where my Sonata MIGHT make it but I'm not willing to risk it.
The XTerra was a vehicle that I'd had in mind for a while (especially since it seems like you can buy one for $5000 on craigslist these days) but the aftermarket/maintenance/mileage costs gave me pause. |
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Vancouver, BC
Canada
1114 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 3:59 PM
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Have a 2011 (non-turbo) Forester. Bought aftermarket skid plates and when the all season tires die, I'll get AT tires to put on. I got the Manual because I jsut enjoy driving it more but if you want a slightly better off-roader, get the auto as it has a lower gear ratio so you can rock crawl without riding the clutch like I do.
It's been more than good in snow and city driving but where it really excels in gas mileage is the highway. So it doesn't kill me driving 2 hours of highway to get to a 30 km FSR.
Haven't taken it on rough roads too much. The Furry Creek FSR - Easy. The Cheekeeye(south) just recently and it handled pretty well. Clearance was good enough to get through all the bars and I didn't scrape on any large rocks. All in all, it's been pretty sweet so far. |
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Port Moody, BC
Canada
544 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 7:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by THE EDJ
Sure a stock Jeep may get the job done, if you get the right one.
The right one? You can get any of the latest generation Wranglers, and it will be the right one.
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Even then, you are still going to have to spend some time and money to truly make any Jeep "trail worthy".
And this you're saying based on what?
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But we aren't talking about crawlin' up 4x4 trails. We are talking about driving up rough, often steep, somewhat technical back country roads where your Honda Civic or Toyota Prius shouldn't go. I want a solid, comfortable daily driver that can handle the demands of my weekend adventures.
If that's all you want to drive, then go for the Forester or any other crossover. I just believe backcountry roads won't always give you what you want.
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The Forester is easy to modify and doesn't actually require much to make it capable enough to deal with most BC backroads.
What's the biggest tire you can put on it, and how much lift it will require? Then after you do that, please do tell how much your mileage dropped and how shitty it now handles. There goes your comfort and mileage.
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The Forester isn't a compromise
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it's a brilliant solution to finding a car that handles every day driving duties in comfort and style, and will confidently get you a little off of the beaten path on the weekend.
Definition of COMPROMISE
something intermediate between or blending qualities of two different things
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I'm not arrogant enough to say it's the best car, or the only car for the job, it's just what I've chosen because I like it.
Well, it's good thing you like it. Hope you'll also like seeing other people take pictures of your beat up Forester, or just simply walking. |
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Qualicum Beach, BC
Canada
1307 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 7:51 PM
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I had a Toyota 4-Runner for about 10 years, but it finally rusted out and I gave it to a friend that works in a body shop. So, about a year and a half ago I bought a used 2007 Subaru Forester.
The 4 Runner would go anywhere, with high clearance and manual gearing and a bull low that would crawl slower than a walk and was great in the water bars. Using the clutch in water bars just burns it out. With a set of chains on the front wheels, it would go through snow as well as any other truck and with chains on all four wheels, it would go where a tank could go. It also had a rear cargo area that could sleep two, for car camping at a trail head.
When I went looking for a replacement, I was looking for another 4-Runner, a Rave, or a Forester and found a Forester first, so went with it. The Forester that I bought was previously owned by a person that owned a heli-ski operation, so it came with studded snow tires and heated seats.
The Forester will haul almost as much gear inside as the 4-Runner and will carry 5 people as comfortably, with better pep on the hills on highway driving. It also gets better gas milage. With the rear seats folded down, you could maybe sleep in the back, but it's not flat and would be uncomfortable. With the studded tires on, it will go on snow or ice, like driving in summer conditions, except when the snow gets deep enough to seriously bottom out. Mine came with a manual transmission, that I thought was what I wanted, but it's not geared low enough to walk through water bars and the clutch is much needed, so I wish I had rather got one with an automatic transmission.
If the Forester had better clearance and a lower first gear, I would call it damn near perfect.
In retrospect though, if I were to go looking for a new vehicle tomorrow, I'd narrow it down to 4-Runner. |
Edited by - prother on 05/23/2012 7:57 PM |
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Back Road Vehicles
