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Vancouver, BC
Canada
10 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2005 : 6:03 PM
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im just wondering if anyone has attempted the nitnat triangle in the last while?
I found some information on it in the backroad mapbook for vancouver island, which suggested two routes: the first portaging 7km along the west coast trail (sounds fairly difficult), and another canoeing the ocean to the narrows (sounds fairly crasy in a canoe)...
...has anyone tried either of these routes, or does anyone have any information on an alternate route to complete the triangle?
thanks a bunch! |
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 Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13061 Posts |
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Fowl photographin, animal lovin, thread trollin, dry bag humpin, canoe canoodler
Vancouver, BC
Canada
4039 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2005 : 01:59 AM
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Hi Sandy, I just got back late from the Broken Islands group and found your post. What ever information I can help with feel free to e-mail or post me. In answer to the question you posed above, the suggested way to do the Nitinat Triangle is to have two canoes and four people. Both groups would launch from atop of Nitnat Lake with one group heading into the portage to Hobiton Lake and the other, paddling down to the Nitinat Narrows. The group at the Narrows would then leave their canoe there and hike up the West Coast Trail to Tsusiat Falls, then up the trail to Tsusiat Lake where they'd meet up with the group that came in via Hobiton Lake. They'd then swap canoes and this way, there is no portaging of the long stretch of Trail from the Falls to the Narrows, or dangerous ocean paddle. There really is no other alternative as this is very remote country. Good Luck and glad to hear someone else is looking at it.
Cheers.
P.S. Thanks Mick, for the thumbs up on the report! |
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Tumbler Ridge, BC
Canada
1364 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 4:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sbisaro
im just wondering if anyone has attempted the nitnat triangle in the last while?
I found some information on it in the backroad mapbook for vancouver island, which suggested two routes: the first portaging 7km along the west coast trail (sounds fairly difficult), and another canoeing the ocean to the narrows (sounds fairly crasy in a canoe)...
...has anyone tried either of these routes, or does anyone have any information on an alternate route to complete the triangle?
thanks a bunch!
They're not really two seperate routes, it just depends on what your comfort level is. You have to get out a long way from land before the swells hitting the headlands stop being an issue, and launching would be a real pain. My Father in law did it about 15 years ago, which is why when we did it last time, we packed the canoes the seven km.
Carrying a canoe seven km isn't really as bad as it sounds. If you can split it up across two days, it's a lot easier. We left our gear at Tsuisat, carried our canoes down to the Narrows, and stashed them in the bushes, then walked back to the falls. The next day, we got up early, strapped on our packs, hiked to the narrows, hopped in the canoes, and headed for home. There's something special about walking back to Tsusiat Falls without a pack, past hole-in-the-wall. Pick up some crabs at the Narrows, walk back, and have the best backcountry supper you *ever* had.
Monster's suggestion is a lot easier, but if you can't find a second group, it can be done. Don't try and kill yourself by carrying everything all at once, it is manageable.
Seriously. When people complain about heavy packs or portaging canoes, I always think about the story that I read once about someone heading into the Bowron/Wells area. Came across a trapper with a cast iron pot belly stove strapped to his back. "Isn't that a little heavy?" our hero asked. "Naw, it ain't too bad," replied the trapper, "It's the bag of potatoes inside there that keeps shifting around that's the real trouble."
If you don't want to do the whole thing, but want to experience the joys of the west coast, paddle to the narrows, then hike in to Tsusiat Falls. That's two sides right there, and you don't have to do any portaging.
Have fun. It's a gorgeous trip. Tough, but beautiful.
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I never get lost. It's just that sometimes, I'm not sure where I am. |
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Fowl photographin, animal lovin, thread trollin, dry bag humpin, canoe canoodler
Vancouver, BC
Canada
4039 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 02:07 AM
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Backroader lives in fantasy land. Claims to have done the entire circuit in four days flat but interestingly enough, has all his pictures and trip report tied up on his web server which is down, at least that was his first story. He later said a “nameless” newspaper lost all his pictures, but did manage to find a single picture to substantiate his four day claim, someone holding up an 80lb frontiersmen canoe. Not only has Backroader done the entire Triangle in four days flat but he tells me people say he’s not in good shape and that “I don't think it was that incredible a feat“ because “I love being out there so much that I don't really notice that we're working hard.”
http://clubtread.com/sforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12080
All I can say is that if there is ONE thing anyone who does this trip will remember, it will be how hard the Triangle is and as for my dear friend Backraoder… I feel confident in calling him on all his B.S. so… it's up to him if he wants to prove me wrong. |
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Manitoba's misadventurin' bushwhackin', dog sloggin', dehydratin', beer drinkin' biggie - who's eager to peak bag Mt Currie in a dress
Squamish
5048 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 06:27 AM
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That's quite a statement to make. Why don't you back it up with your own trip report?
There are some very fast trippers out there. 28km paddling and a 8km portage in a day is nothing to some. A few I know would do that before lunch.
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Edited by - blackfly on 08/17/2005 06:36 AM |
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Fowl photographin, animal lovin, thread trollin, dry bag humpin, canoe canoodler
Vancouver, BC
Canada
4039 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 09:59 AM
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| Actually it's almost 70k in total. 55k of paddling and 12.5k of portaging, double that if you need to make two trips for gear. Is it possible to do that in four days with an old heavy Frontiersmen canoe and minimal gear? If a man can walk on the moon I suppose anything’s possible but seeing as he addressed his trip report special for me... I'll expect something a little better from a 'professional writer' than a single picture (of I dont know what) to substantiate this accomplishment which, I honestly hope is all true. But I doubt it enough to say so out loud. |
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Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13061 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 10:20 AM
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| One thing for sure, it doesn't sound like an easy voyage. I'd like to do it someday just to see the old growth cedar forests. At nearby Cheewhat Lake stands the world's largest cedar, and the forests in that area may be hiding even bigger trees. |
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Manitoba's misadventurin' bushwhackin', dog sloggin', dehydratin', beer drinkin' biggie - who's eager to peak bag Mt Currie in a dress
Squamish
5048 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 5:43 PM
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It is definitely possible to paddle 70km with 12km of portages in 4 days. I've paddled a solo river trip of 105km, with about a dozen portages of various length in 4 days finishing the paddle early in the morning on the fourth day. That's a Shield 'river' which is mostly lakes with fast bits in between (Manigotogan). Double carry on the portages. I also did a 60km lake trip solo in 3 days, with lots of portages, one at 3km in length (due to a bunch of reasons I won't get into, I walked this one over 4 carries  )
I'm not at all trying to be obtuse or get you cranky Andrew, all I'm saying is that it's definitely possible, so the benefit of the doubt might be generous, especially before you call out a respected individual on a public forum. |
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Manitoba's misadventurin' bushwhackin', dog sloggin', dehydratin', beer drinkin' biggie - who's eager to peak bag Mt Currie in a dress
Squamish
5048 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 5:45 PM
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| Having said all that, the Nitinat triangle sounds like my kind of trip! Are you planning on doing it again? I'd be interested. |
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Fowl photographin, animal lovin, thread trollin, dry bag humpin, canoe canoodler
Vancouver, BC
Canada
4039 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 8:40 PM
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What can I say, I'm just a jaded SOB.
No worries about getting me cranky Blackfly, I've given Backroader more then the benefit of the doubt but you could not have seen this as our exchanges on this issue have crossed over many different threads. In his trip report thread I even let him off the hook and gave up arguing the issue however he seems to enjoy following me around to bring it back up. I am not angry at Backroader nor do I think he's a bad guy, I am even impressed with his "My First Hike" trip report which was really cute and clearly showed me that at heart, he is a good natured fellow. I simply believe he's made up his claims as some kind of practical joke because when I ask him for any verification at all... I get nothing accept excuses, and they change often. Also, when you mention trips involving the same distances being covered in that amount of time, they really dont equate to the Triangle where the terrain is pretty extreme. Take a look at the pictures in my trip report and you'll see why it would take a mighty accomplished man to claim the completion of this circuit in four days flat.
As for him being a 'respected individual' well.. thats good for him but it provides no immunity from me questioning extraordinary claims with vague or little details to back it up... and especially when it's addressed directly to me. I'm personally not too proud to say I'm wrong when I am so I’ll continue to look forward to him providing me that opportunity.
As for you and Mick both wanting to do the Triangle, ugh... as long as we are not attempting to complete it in four days I’d be happy to do it again with both of you and I’d also like to extend a sincere invitation to Backroader to accompany us, that’s four people and two canoes which is good math. Backroader has been saying he’d like to do it again for the last two years so, I’m extending the offer to all three of you now.
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Tumbler Ridge, BC
Canada
1364 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 12:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Monster
I feel confident in calling him (Him being Backroader; which would be me) on all his B.S. so… it's up to him if he wants to prove me wrong.
Ouch. Wow. Guilty until proven innocent, I see.
As a freelance journalist, I take any accusations of faking stories rather personally. While I'm sure it wasn't meant ad hominum, it certianly hits pretty hard. Hard enough that I don't think I'll actually be able to get any real work done until I address this.
Ephesians 4:25Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body.
Forgoing some rather interesting theological nitpicking about who then is our neighbour in this context, I will say that I have tried to live by the sentiments expressed in this verse: Put off all falsehoods and to speak truthfully. To BS--to lie--runs contrary to something that is fairly foundational to who I am. (Yes, I know, I have a rather deep sarcastic streak that uses literary devices such as overstatement and irony far too heavily, but I hope that when I comment about, say, Satan-worshipping Girl Guides who live on Quarry Road, most people realize that I am creating a comic device, not trying to deliberately mislead.). When accused of lying, I tend to crumple inside.
So here is the truth. I work in Dawson Creek.
Huh? How does that relate? Well, here's the deal. I work in Dawson, but I live in Tumbler Ridge. I maintain a residence in Dawson where I can go and crash when I'm not at work (I am at work, though not always working (case in point) from about 9 in the morning to...well, usually around midnight, at which point in time I go back to the apartment and crash (though yesterday I went back early to play Fable on the X-Box.)
Still not seeing where I'm going? Maybe one too many pointless asides? Very well. Because I am currently at work in a different town, I don't have access to my home computer, my box of stories, or anything that I could actually use to verify the actual particulars of my story, which is why, when in doubt, I put a question mark on it. Perhaps that sounds BS-y to you, but rather than say something in error, I tell you when not to trust something that I am saying.
So, let's start from the beginning.
quote:
Originally posted by Backroader at http://clubtread.com/sforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2679&SearchTerms=nitinat
We did the Nitinat Triangle a few years back. Fantastic place....
I'd point you to my story on the trip, but it is currently in limbo; my website is down; I should get it up soon, but I said that six months ago...
If I could find the spare time, I want to go back. I need some more better pictures. I got some beauts, but one of the publications I wrote for lost the best (back in the days before digital). Grr.
Let's see. Statements in there that you have had problems with:
quote:
"A few years back."
Didn't know at the time. You asked "How long ago did I do it." I replied "...five years ago now?" There's that question mark. Because it appears that fact will help you, I'm getting my wife to check for me once she put's Zoe to bed."
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"I'd point you to my story on the trip, but it is currently in limbo; my website is down;"
Still is. www.trenternst.com to go see the rather outdated note saying this:
quote:
bet you're looking for Trenternst.com.
This is it. Or rather, this is where it should be. I took the site down to work on, and life has conspired to prevent me from finishing it.
When will it be back up? Soon, I hope, but my first priority is revamping the District of Tumbler Ridge website. If you have any questions, or want to get in contact with me, just send me an email at trent@trenternst.com. In the meantime, you can check out www.eyefordetailphotos.com if you are interested in my services as a photographer.
I didn't say the server had eaten it; I just said that it was in "limbo". I have all the original files. On my computer at home. Where I am not. But where I was when I posted that story.
Another statement you had problems with.
quote:
"If I could find the spare time, I want to go back. I need some more better pictures. I got some beauts, but one of the publications I wrote for lost the best (back in the days before digital). Grr."
Ah. Here we go. Elsewhere (http://clubtread.com/sforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12080&SearchTerms=nitinat) we had this discussion
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Backroader
as I mentioned elsewhere, some paper which shall remain nameless lost my best pics from the trip....
Actually I didn’t know you’d mentioned this elsewhere? The last reference I recall you made was..
quote:
”I'd point you to my story on the trip, but it is currently in limbo; my website is down”
You'll note that you are quoting the exact same thing that I am quoting, where it does say "one of the publications I wrote for lost the best..."
So then, I did say it, you just missed it. This "missing" bit of information is what a lot of your suspicions are based on. Does this help relieve them? (Not about whether or not that I did the trip or not; rather, you accused me of "changing my excuses"; what I am trying to show is that my excuses, as you call them, did not change, but were merely added to as you kept asking about them.)
I'd also like to point out that what I said was that the publication "lost the best." It didn't lose them all. Elsewhere, I refer to it as "No, it was for a different paper, that isn't crooked, just sometimes absent-minded." Which is a backhanded way of saying that it was The Georgia Straight. (Get it? Isn't crooked? There's a double entendre there; I'm saying they didn't steal the pictures, just lost them, but I am also implying, by the use of isn't crooked that it is therefore "Straight."
(Oh come on. It wasn't that strained.)
The fact that the Georgia Straight Lost my Best Pictures was just me complaining about the fact that the GS lost my best pictures, and because of that, I couldn't resell the story to Canoeroots Magazine, which is why I want to go back...someday, to get more photos, as the ones that remain are pretty lame. (I brought one roll of slide film along, thinking that would be enough. It wasn't. So when the Straight lost the best, there wasn't much depth remaining in my collection of photos. (It was my first major multi-day trip; I didn't know any better. And slide film was expensive for a struggling freelancer.)
I didn't provide the names of the now mentioned publications, because I didn't think it really added anything to my point, which was that I need to go back and get more pictures. It *wasn't* me trying to dodge any issues, because I didn't realize there was any issues.
While I am here, the Magazine that the Nitinat Story originally ran in was The Voice Community Magazine , formerly The North and West Voice . My wife just spent a fruitless hour (just under; we spent 40:48 minutes talking, according to the time stamp on my cell) looking through my rather unorganized (read: non-existant) filing system looking for a date on that Nitinat Story. She was unable to find it, though that speaks more to my lack of organization (and the fact that most of my stories are buried under a pile of boxes that she refuses to look under) than the fact that it doesn't exist. She was able to tell me that most of my columns that she could find were dated 1998, which would mean that a tentative (but only tentative) time for my trip would be seven years ago, which is a bit longer than the five that I suggested earlier.
Seven years in the life of a trail is a pretty long time, and IIRC, Parks Canada does no maintainence on the trails, so this *could* explain the discrepancy between your saying how bad the portages were ( "It took us five hours to get our gear and Prospector just 1.03 kilometers on this first portage and be back on the water. I can tell you now that this was not the worst trail we’d face before completing this circuit, but in its own way it was the critical balancing of the mental checkbook for what lay ahead if we wanted the rewards of untouched lakes."), and my slightly lesser "An hour paddling, followed by a five hour portage is a bit much, but when you get to the end of that portage...man." You say that "I've been told that they were definitely usable ten to fifteen years ago." While I stand by my original assesment that my trip there wasn't that long ago, it was slightly longer than I originally said, about halfway between now and when the portage trails were useable.
Of course, seven years is also just a long time, and it could be that time has caused me to forget the actual horror of the portages. I remember they were tough, but nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight/you have to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight."
A couple other things issues
quote:
"however he seems to enjoy following me around to bring it back up."
Okay. I found your post on the Nitinat, and commented on it. You seemed interested in my experience, so I tracked down the story and posted it, with a bit of a humerous intro about the Monster under my bed kicking up a fuss to see it. This latter was a bit of crude humour (as you might have guessed from the comment about bottles whizzing by in protest to my lame attempt at a joke, which in turn was a fairly lame joke), and wasn't intended as a "He's been pastering me for, like, the last month to show him my story, and I just can't get him off my back" (whoops, it's monkeys on the back, not Monsters).
If this was interpreted as a jibe, please forgive me. It wasn't. If anything, the previous discussion was a great excuse for me to post my story.
As someone who has done the Nitinat, I like to comment on it. Ditto when people ask questions about the KVR (would it trouble anyone if I said I did Midway to Hope in six days on bike?), about Lady Peak (didn't get to the top), about The back way up Cheam (ditto), about hiking to the Lions (again, ditto both main ways; failed to reach the top from HSCT or from Lion's Bay; I need to start alloting more time when hiking), or about any of the other hikes that I've actually done. I also like to comment on things that I haven't done but have done a lot of research on, because I like to share knowledge. Spread the wealth.
I would have commented on this thread whether or not you had commented on this thread, especially since sbisaro quoted me right off the top. Of course I'm going to respond. The fact that you got here first doesn't really negate that. There is so much on this site that I can't speak to (never skied Bowron Lakes, Never been to Swan Falls, have written extensively in the past on Jumbo Glacier, but haven't looked at in for at least a year). So when there is a topic I can speak to, I speak to it, baby, even if I only bring a very little actual new information to the table.
quote:
"I simply believe he's made up his claims as some kind of practical joke because when I ask him for any verification at all... I get nothing accept excuses, and they change often.
Okay. Have we cleared up the fact that my excuses, such as they are, are not changing? As questions are raised, I am providing more detail, which is not changing the original text, merely illuminating it. The trouble is, these additions are being misinterpreted, which was not helped by the fact that you missed a paragraph in my original posting. Even now, I have not provided all the details (some because I can't find them from where I am, some because I still don't feel that they will add anything to the discussion (like, why would you need to know that the editor of Canoeroots last year was Tim Shiff, who loved my pitch, but couldn't run the story because, you guessed it, I didn't have strong enough supporting photos?) I was just filling in what I thought would be an acceptable level of detail, thinking you were just asking me a simple question. I didn't realize that the integrity of the story was being questioned.
Have we addressed all the textual issues? If not let me know.
Now, in regards to extra-textual issues, which is where you are saying that I'm BSing. This becomes a lot more tricky. If you believe I am BSing, how far down does that cycle go? What amount of proof do you need that will convince you that I did the Nitinat Triangle in four (count 'em, four) days? I have already provided the text, which you have called into question. So, tell me what is good enough for you, because once you start this line of questioning, I too, begin to question.
You said I provided "vague or little details" to back it up. What more details do you want that would help you? As soon as I write them down, they become textual, and therefore, questionable.
Would photos "prove" it for you? Is that enough to satisfy you? Should it be? I have mentioned elsewhere that I work as a graphic designer (perhaps I was lying then, too?). I could, given enough time (which I have had), photoshop a couple pictures of me in a canoe on the west coast of Vancouver Island.
But even more simply, I might show you a picture, claiming it is me, when actually it is my brother (it wouldn't be; my brother's idea of getting outdoors is going for a ride on his motorbike; I don't think he's walked more than a few hundred metres in a row for years. But am I lying to you about my brother? Do I even have a brother at all?)
And if photographic evidence is the only evidence you'll believe, then what of history? Did Hannibal really cross the Alps? Did Napolean really die on Alba? Did Arthur really pull the sword from the stone, or was it given to him by the lady of the lake? (Tongue in cheek alert.) Should we call into question all of history, merely because we don't have photographic evidence? We have textual evidence, which is what I have provided you, but what if that isn't enough?
And even if I do provide pictures, and you accept them as valid and real, that would only prove that I did the Nitinat Triangle. How do I substantiate the fact that I did it in four days. Would witnesses help? There's a name given in the original story; you could track him down (canada411.com), and call him, but how do you know I haven't got to him first? That I haven't paid him gross sums of money to help me in deceiving you (as apparently this whole thing is a practical joke being played on you.) I could provide the names and contact details for the other members of our motley crew who you could also call, but again, what would that prove? In the cold, hard, light of reason, nothing. Besides, Bob has got Alzheimers, and probably wouldn't remember anyways, lending credence to your suspicions.
In fact, let's reduce this to the absurd. Blackfly called me a "respected individual." But am I? Not the respected part; I think he was overstating it just a little there.But how do you know that I am an individual. How do you know that I exist? How do I know that you exist? Maybe the words that you are reading before you are being generated by a rather cunning computer program that the US military has developed and is testing it's mettle by using it to con unsuspecting canoeists? I mean, all this talk about living up in Tumbler Ridge could just be a ruse to keep anyone from actually trying to meet me. Heck, I could, with all the resources provided me by the US government, hire an actor to impersonate me, or rather, this persona I've created.
All this is to call into question your questioning of me, because if you start with me, where does it end? Did Dru really do Slesse Memorial, Propellor Cairn "and Beyond" in one day? How do you know? Sure, he provided pictures, but maybe he was lying? Maybe that's not really Slesse. Maybe it is, but he did the trip over the course of a week, and is just saying he did it in a day to try and up his cred as the best dang climber in the Coast Mountains. If I can't do it, then he must not be able to do it, either.
If I had a history of making outrageous claims, I could see this being an issue. But why would I claim to have failed to make it to the Lions *twice*, to have fallen and just about killed myself going down a 15 foot embankment (I have related that story, right? We were going down a muddy slope right next to a waterfall, and as I was climbing down, I slipped. Fortunately there was a big rock stuck in the slope, that I grabbed. Unfortunately, the rock came loose, and it and I came bouncing down the slope together, it narrowly missing my head?) Why have I only posted one flipping, lame-o trip report about the one lame-o hike that I've done this year instead of telling you all about climbing to the top of Quintette Mt., or visiting Babcock Falls, or Teepee Falls, or Bergeron Falls. Nobody would question me on those. But while I have done them, I haven't done them this year, so I will not make a trip report.) Why do I say that I was feeling ill, and crapped out at the base of the ridge on Lady Peak, instead of making it all the way to the top?
Who'd question me if I fudged it on these details? Anyone out there? Would anyone care?
I would. I would care passionately and deeply (is he lying?) Which is why I have only the one trip report up. (A second is going up soon as I finish this, but you won't believe it as I don't have pictures, and I can't even remember the name of the mountain. Which is all part of why I am posting the trip report, actually.)
Why would I be bitterly honest about these things (at the expense of my own reputation as a "backcountry expert" (which I put in ironic quotes, though I usually can't stand them), and then make something up about doing the Nitinat Triangle in four days. I mean seriously, who cares? If I got to the Lions from Howe Sound in two hours, now that would be a boast that people would sit up and take notice of, but the whatsamawhozits polygon? There's only two people on this board who have actually been there. If I wanted to make outrageous claims about places nobody has been to, I can come up with a whole list of trails people haven't hiked, and cannot verify, that I can boast about. "I did the Onion Lake Trail and back in a day." (I didn't.)
Before, I didn't realize that I was on trial (he says, a cunning literary device linking his closing to his opening, and proving once again that he likes to refer to himself in the third person). Now I do, so speak plainly. What evidence do you need, and I will gladly provide it. Photos? Contacts? My sworn solemn oath? Sorry, latter won't happen (Why? Because someone once told me: "Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool...And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one." (Interesting aside; why is it that in a court of law, you are asked to swear on the bible? Anyone who actually believes what it says in there won't do it (there is a provision so that people who won't swear on the bible can affirm what they are saying is truthful), and those who swear on it probably don't have anything invested in it anyway, so swearing on it is about as meaningful as swearing on a copy of War and Peace. (Which this post is turning into, isn't it?)))
So, ball is back in your court. Tell me what you need, and I'll provide it. You'll note that I haven't really addressed the issue of doing the Nitinat in four days, but only my honesty and integrity, because that is much more important to me. But if it evidence you demand, so be it. Demand away.
Don't just say "okay" because it is the civil thing to do. If you still think I'm BSing you, tell me. I don't want to win you over by the sheer weight of my words. (Uncle! I can't wade through another one of those posts!)
Let me add just one more detail that will further stretch my credibility, and test your already broken incredulity. This wasn't in the original story as it is a red herring, and while it colours how my trip went, it added nothing to the story, except words, which I was already short on.
Rather than paddle directly down Nitinat Lake to Knob Point, we went across to the southern shore, to the old Brown Bay (IIRC that's the name of the place) Trailhead. We started hiking in, but came across a sign saying "trail closed, no access to the West Coast Trail this way" (paraphrase). I, being the good Christian boy I am, raised concerns hiking past a sign that said "don't hike past this sign." The others decided to carry on, heading for, (again, IIRC), Clo'ose. I sat down on a log. It took them about an hour to realize that I was missing, and to hike back to where I was.
So there you go: Not only The Triangle, but a side hike as well. Fact or Fiction?
MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU
(You being Monster, but anyone else who has actually got to the end of this novel and wants to play along in this game of Liar, Lunatic or Llll...lllikely telling the truth. There you go: liar, lunatic or likely telling the truth.)
(Although I'm sure you'd argue that anyone who did the trip in four days is probably a lunatic, so why add in the third option, eh?)
Do you believe that I did the Nitinat Triangle?(__yes __no)
If no, what would convince you?
In four days? (__yes __no)
If no, what would convince you?
Am I just someone you know trying to pull a fast one on you by masquerading as the researcher for the Backroad Mapbooks series, and my previous hundred posts were just to lull you into a false sense of my identity? (__yes __no)
Is there really someone named Trent Ernst out there, or is this just some cunningly crafted game, a la the Halo 2/I Like Bees thing? (__yes __no)
If so, what new game am I promoting?
That's it. That's the end. Congratulations if you read it all. If not, may I encourage you to do so? You missed some sparkling wit, some devastating arguments, some rather large words that nobody (including the author) understands, and some gratuitous sex. (Actual post may or may not contain any or all of these ingredients).
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I never get lost. It's just that sometimes, I'm not sure where I am. |
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Tumbler Ridge, BC
Canada
1364 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 12:48 PM
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Sorry. I meant I love Bees, not I like Bees. http://www.ilovebees.com/
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Fowl photographin, animal lovin, thread trollin, dry bag humpin, canoe canoodler
Vancouver, BC
Canada
4039 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 12:54 PM
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Holy written scriptures Batman!
I tried, I mean, I really, really tried to read all of what you wrote but…. just wasn’t possible so I’ll stick to your questions at the end.
Yes I believe you did part of the Triangle, and possibly all of it.
No I do not believe you did it in four days, and neither would anyone else who’s done it in the last five years.
What would it take to convince me? Not another book that’s for sure but, why not by doing it again? I’d be happy to join you, and you e-mailed Frenchy almost two years ago saying you wanted to, and you’ve said so here a few times here as well. Seems there’s a couple of other interested parties too.
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Mountain Grammar Police
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Sardonic sandbagging scoundrel, Cascade Climbers lobotomized spraymeister, space blanket flyer, new millennium vulgarian betaboy and friend to all squids
Climbing, a mountain
Canada
∞ Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 1:09 PM
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So lets say Backroader and Monster go to the Nitinat and it turns out Backroader is faster than Monster. Now comes the difficult choice. Abandon Monster, proceed at speed, complete goal but lose paddling partner? Or stay with Monster, fail at goal, but stay safe?
BTW I am not the best climber in the Coast Mountains. Far from it. If you drew up a depth chart I might be on the 4th or 5th page. |
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Tumbler Ridge, BC
Canada
1364 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 1:16 PM
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I don't see how doing it again would prove that I took four days, only that with conditions as they are, it wouldn't be possible to do it in four days? You haven't disproven me, you've only proven you. That doesn't change the fact that I did it in four days. And you are still calling me a liar.
What you missed from not reading that post was the fact that I got my wife to do some fact checking, and it looks like I probably did it seven years ago, not five, so the two ( I did it in four days; nobody in the last five years could've possibly done it in four days) are not mutually incompatible statements.
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I never get lost. It's just that sometimes, I'm not sure where I am. |
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Tumbler Ridge, BC
Canada
1364 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 1:18 PM
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The trouble with doing the Nitinat again is this:
I am now a father (wasn't then).
I am now living in Tumbler Ridge, an extra 12 hours away (wasnt' then).
I am now gainfully employed (wasn't then).
As is my wife (was then, but with a daughter to look after, it creates added pressure).
And I have to take a week off work to work at camp (see trip report that should be up soon), and a week to do research for the next book, which basically eats up my holidays for the year.
I will try and shoehorn a trip in next year; I'll talk to dad and see if he's keen on it.
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I never get lost. It's just that sometimes, I'm not sure where I am. |
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Tumbler Ridge, BC
Canada
1364 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 1:23 PM
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I'm keeping these short in the hopes that you'll actually read them.
HOW TO DO THE NITINAT TRIANGLE IN FOUR DAYS: A BEGINNER'S GUIDE
Day 1:
Leave early (6ish?) in the morning from Knob Point. Paddle to Hobbiton Creek.
Portage Canoes. Hike back, grab packs.
Canoe to end of Hobbiton Lake. Hike to Tsuisat Lake with packs. Set up camp. (Even with a five hour portage at Hobbiton, and a two hour hike to Tsuisiat, that still leaves a good four or five hours of daylight for paddling.
Day two. Wake up. Hike back to canoes, carry them to Tsusiat Lake. Canoe to end of Tsusiat Lake, line canoe down Tsusiat River to Tsusiat Falls. As we are going to be portaging, leave canoes at the top of the ladder, in the bush by the bridge. Go frolic in the falls, and make camp for night.
Day three. Entire day is dedicated to carrying canoes from Tsuisiat to Nitinat, then hiking back. Camp a second night at Tsusiat Falls.
Day four. Wake up early. Hike to Nitinat Bore. Wait for tide to slack. Canoe to Brown Bay. Do hyphenated hike (read earlier post for details). Canoe until wind gets too strong. Have supper. Resume canoeing once the wind dies down, and keep going until it's nearly pitch black. Arrive at Knob Point, at ten at night.
I don't see how this timeline is impossible. But again, it was a while back, and the conditions of the portages might have changed. The WCT portage shouldn't be a stumbling block; it's not that hard a hike, compared to the earlier portages, even with a canoe on your back.
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I never get lost. It's just that sometimes, I'm not sure where I am. |
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Fowl photographin, animal lovin, thread trollin, dry bag humpin, canoe canoodler
Vancouver, BC
Canada
4039 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 2:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Backroader
You haven't disproven me, you've only proven you.
It's not my job to disprove your claims, but it is your job to substantiate your claims. You've written me an entire book and yet still.. said nothing. No original trip report, no pictures and unable to do it again.
Anyways, what does it matter if I believe you or not? Like I said... Awesome trip report Backroader. |
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Tumbler Ridge, BC
Canada
1364 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 3:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Monster
quote:
Originally posted by Backroader
You haven't disproven me, you've only proven you.
It's not my job to disprove your claims, but it is your job to substantiate your claims. You've written me an entire book and yet still.. said nothing. No original trip report, no pictures and unable to do it again.
Let's address you accusations. Again.
quote:
You've written me an entire book and yet still.. said nothing.
Have I said nothing, or have you still not read it?
quote:
No original trip report.
Come again? I posted an article written for a newspaper (approx) seven years ago. How much more original do you want? Would you like a scan of the article? Or are you saying it wasn't original in that it was too derivative? Are you looking for primary sources, like the notebook I carried when we did it?
quote:
No pictures.
You still haven't convinced me how pictures would help you to help you trust me. You have said that you think I did part of the triangle. If so, then surely I have pictures. How do they prove how long it took me?
quote:
Unable to do it again.
Again, not really a valid argument. If Ben Johnson cannot run 100 m in less than 9 seconds, does that mean he never could? If you were to take him to a track, and he could only run 100 m in 10.24 seconds, would you then claim that he never held the world record for those tantalizing 24 hours? If Stephen Hawking can no longer walk, does that mean that he never could?
quote:
Anyways, what does it matter if I believe you or not? Like I said... Awesome trip report Backroader.
What does it matter? What does it matter! You have said that a story that I have written and had published, is a hoax, that I am a liar.
Not only does this call into question my faith and how I govern myself, it calls into question every word--every jot and tittle--that I have ever written.
"I was thinking about buying the new Backroad Mapbook".
"I wouldn't. Andrew told me that the guy who wrote them is a liar and a fake. Can't trust him or them."
"I read a cover story in the Georgia Straight written by that Trent guy about the time he went paragliding."
"Bet he didn't; bet he's just making it up."
And you don't see how invalidating a lifetime's work isn't a big deal? It's a very big deal. Even if it is only in your eyes that it is invalid, it is a big deal to me.
Again. Prove to me that I can provide something to you, other than that which I have said to you that can prove to you that I did what I said I did.
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I never get lost. It's just that sometimes, I'm not sure where I am. |
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Tumbler Ridge, BC
Canada
1364 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 3:48 PM
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Again, I didn't proof well enough; Ben ran in under 10 seconds not 9 seconds. He ran the race in 9.79.
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I never get lost. It's just that sometimes, I'm not sure where I am. |
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nitnat triangle?
