| Author |
Topic |
 Big pack hiker who sleeps with bears in tent and falls on slippery logs
Langley, BC
Canada
7677 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 11:18 AM
|
I thought it might be fun to start up a little debate on the site. One debate that I have always found amusing is whether or not bear bells should be used. I have a bear bell, but I don't often wear it or take it with me. What are people's thoughts on them? Do they alert bears to your presence or are they simply a dinner bell? Inquiring minds want to know. 
|
|
New Westminster, BC
Canada
955 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 11:32 AM
|
In my opinion, I think they're really annoying. I think talking does more to scare away bears than bells. Plus, everyone around you gets annoyed at the sound. Although if you're hiking alone, it may be useful, but imagine somewhere really quiet and you're by yourself hiking and having to listen to the bells over and over again as you walk. It gets really frustrating. I don't use bear bells, but I've been with people that do. Anyways, I found this joke a while ago on bear bells if anyone wants to read
Bear Bells
A guy's going on a hiking vacation through the mountains out west. Before setting off into the boonies, he stops into a small general store to get some supplies.
After picking out the rest of his provisions, he asks the old store owner,
"Say mister, I'm going hiking up in the mountains, and I was wondering; do you have any bears around here?"
"Yup," replies the owner.
"What kind?" asks the hiker.
"Well, we got black bears and we got grizzlies," he replies.
"I see," says the hiker. "Do you have any of those bear bells?"
"What do you mean?" asks the store owner.
"You know," replies the hiker, "those little tinkle-bells that people wear in bear country to warn the bears that they are coming, so they don't surprise the bears and get attacked."
"Oh yeah," replies the owner. "They're over there," he says, pointing to a shelf on the other side of the store. The hiker selects a couple of the bells and and takes them to the counter to pay for them.
"Tell me something, mister," the hiker inquires, "how can you tell when you're in bear territory, anyway?"
"By the scat," the old fellow replies, ringing up the hiker's purchases.
"Well, um, how can I tell if it's grizzly territory or black bear territory?" the hiker asks.
"By the scat," the store owner replies.
"Well, what's the difference?" asks the hiker. "I mean, what's different between grizzly scat and black bear scat?"
"The stuff that's in it," replies the store owner.
Getting a little frustrated, the hiker asks, "OK, so what's in grizzly bear scat that isn't in black bear scat?" he asks, an impatient tone in his voice.
"Bear bells," replies the old man as he hands the hiker his purchases.
|
|
|
 Dog walkin, peak seeking, old timer
Langley, BC
Canada
390 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 11:35 AM
|
I can genuinely appriciate the use of bear bells, say, in Manning Park or Jasper, Kannanaskis or the likes, but when hiking in places where bears aren't quite as frequent, I prefer to hike quietly. I have on occasion hiked with partners who had the contraption "singing" for hours, only to devoid the hike of a peaceful traverse through the peaceful wilds I came to visit!
In a nut shell, use them when you "need" to, otherwise, bag the damn thing!
|
|
|
 Kootenay Bud
2695 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 11:38 AM
|
I'm with Backpacker on this one. I find them just plain annoying, particularly as the places you usually hear them are trails that are wall to wall with people that any griz in his right mind would stay away from (e.g. the larch valley trail near Lake Louise).
|
|
|
 alpine seekin, therma loungin, java brewin, licorice whorin, stealth hikin, all weather trail guru
Pt. Coquitlam, B.C.
Canada
1772 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 12:31 PM
|
My thoughts exactly Sandy. It just goes to show you..... people will buy whatever you sell them. It's totally hillarious to see a huge group of people tramping down a hiker highway, with bells on.
Personally I enjoy seeing and photographing all kinds of wildlife, on the trail, and would rather they not even know I'm there.
|
|
|
Rmd, BC
Canada
1360 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 1:15 PM
|
I won't hike with anyone who is wearing bear bells. They are totally obnoxious. I can be more of a threat than any bear if I have to listen to sleigh bells non stop for hours on end.
|
|
|
|
Fleece thong wearin, Buntzen Lurkin, mystic poet mountain man and international spokesman of the friends of the white squirrel society
Port Moody, B.C.
Canada
5942 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 2:49 PM
|
Interesting topic Jim. I don’t imagine many of us wish to sound like Tinker Bell or the Ice-Cream man bopping down the trail.
As I done a good deal of my hiking solo I tend to let the circumstances dictate as to what I will do. One has to take into account just where you are and where you are going , time of year , number of people already on the trail or cars you see parked at the trail head, and how much bear scat you have already stepped in ! Yes you have to be aware of your surroundings. I remember going with a certain “Trail Master “in his fledgling days. He found us a great spot for lunch, sat down and proceeded to pull out his food. Behind him you could see berries all over along with freshly broken branches and fresh scat just off the trail. We then left rather quickly!
The bells drive me nuts and I would think if you are with someone you don’t really need them. I personally don’t like using them due to the fact I have lost a large number of photo opportunities with spooked game. I missed a great shot of a cougar by 2 seconds, reaching for my camera and bumping those dam bells. He didn’t know I was there and would have had no idea until that moment.
Having said that I do remember being on the trail in the Kootenays and seeing a sign “Warning Grizzly & cubs sighted in area “… out came the bells real fast.
I think the real question might be, have a large number of bears learned to associate the sounds of humans / bells / talking, with food? In some areas the local blacks will just look at you and saunter off without a care in the world. One has to remember the average bear is about as smart as a dog. I have heard it said that 95% of Grizzlies will retreat from man and this may be due to the fact that they don’t wish to have too much contact with them. When your at the top of the food chain you can afford to be picky about who you spend time in the bush with !
I guess for now I’ll continue to carry the bells in the bottom of my pack and pull them out when needed .That is of course unless I take up singing on the trail … SpiderGirl you would be in for a treat
One last comment .It would be nice if ( in remote areas ) we could pack a hand gun . For now the only ones I know of that can do this are registered trappers. I talked this over with a friend of mine in the RCMP and he felt I would be amazed at how many people are taking big chances doing just that. Do I think a full clip from a .45Auto with hollow points would stop a Grizzly … no , but it might be a bit better than pepper spray as a last resort.
Any comments from the group on that one ?
No trail is long with good company. |
|
|
Rmd, BC
Canada
1360 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 3:16 PM
|
Well I for one would feel better about hiking alone or with my girlfriend if we could pack heat. Not even so much for the bears but for all the nutjobs out there. Unfortunately, hand guns are bloody heavy!
|
|
|
|
Big pack hiker who sleeps with bears in tent and falls on slippery logs
Langley, BC
Canada
7677 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 3:20 PM
|
From my reading I've heard that shooting the bear is almost worse than not - unless you're an expert marksman and have a little luck on your side. For example, one of the accounts that I have read have even included a bear that was chased down by hunters, but only turned and attacked them after being shot. Prior to that the bear tried to flee. I don't know - that definitely does open another whole debate...
With respect to the bells, I would agree with your points about where and when. I have to admit that I have mine in my pack and that if I was going in a remote area where there was bear activity and I'm on my own, I would be inclined to use it. Being more remote, I would hope the bears would be less habituated and wouldn't associate it with food.
Don't worry HikerBoy, I'll make sure I wear my bell all the way up the golden staircase. ha ha!
|
|
|
delta, bc
Canada
648 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 4:04 PM
|
I'll wade in from a guide's perspective. I'll preface by saying guides don't use them. The prevailing thought is, in part, tied into what Hiker said. If bears have associated bells with humans they may stay way. If however the association is bells/humans/food then bells serve no purpose other than announcing, as someone suggested, "Dinner's On!". It has been suggested by biologists that bears in the backcountry, unfamiliar with the sound of bear bells, will be drawn to them out of curiosity. It is also forwarded that the bells may sound to bears like an animal, and thus potential food.
I think you can take your lead from backcountry guides and park rangers. I've yet to see any of them use bear bells.
I certainly empathize with those that must suffer the sound of them on the trail. The best deterrants if you have bear concerns are: look for signs, hike with a group [there is no recorded evidence of an attack on a group], and announce your presence by talking/singing loudly [don't whistle for obvious reasons]
|
|
|
747 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 4:07 PM
|
I have yet to use bear bells when I'm hiking, as I'm always hoping there's a chance I might see some sort of a wild beastie, and the bells scare away everything. However, when I had my horse, I used to put bells on her saddle. Travelling on horseback is very quiet, and I didn't want to surprise a bear! Although, chances are my horse would have smelled him first, but I didn't want to risk it. Do the bells really work though anyways? They aren't really that loud. LOL I mainly just had them on my saddle because I used to like the sound of them when we were riding. 
Happy Trails!!! ;) |
|
|
|
opinionated-stove huggin'-fleece wearin'-arse burnin' hill virgin
Here
Canada
4643 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 4:36 PM
|
I'll weigh in on the no bells side. I also find them obnoxious. The funny thing is sometimes in the forest you can't hear the bells until the people using them are almost on top of you.
See you on the mountain! |
|
|
seattle, wa
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 4:48 PM
|
A good book on this subject is "Bear Attacks - Thier causes and avoidance, Second Revision" by Stephen Herrero.
Guns - As others have stated you would have to be a EXCELLENT marksmen at close range with a bear CHARGING at you in order for this to work. For most people, you are just going to make the bear even more angry - especially with a pistol.
Bear Bells - There isn't much proof that these really work at all. For this reason, I don't think they are worth the annoyance and the fact that they also scare away animals and creatures that you might want to see. Which for me would include bears (Knock on wood I don't get attacked now).
People have to remember bears are like humans in the way that they are all different. Their behavior is very unpredictable - what might attract one, might cause another to run.
The best way, in my opinion is to get the bear in a headlock and give him a rub his head with your knuckles (like my big brother used to do to me).
|
|
|
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 6:39 PM
|
Hmmm... I cut my toothbrush handle off to lighten the load, so a .45 magnum just wouldn't work for me, too heavy. Having fired a handgun I can't see anyone but Wyatt Earp hitting a moving target like an animal. It's hard enough with a high powered rifle and scope.
I have never ever had an encounter with a bear that didn't involve having the bear move ahead of me on the trail to keep the distance, or take off like a bat out of hell to avoid me! The encounters described in James Gary Shelton's books just haven't been in my experience (fortunately for me). I do carry bear spray as a security blanket and when I see sign I shout "bear" to make myself known. The shouting does get tedious especially in a group. Somehow the shouting is comfortable sometimes when soloing.
I agree that you never seem to hear those bells until someone is just around the corner or in front of you. I must say I don't find them offensive, in fact they are quite pleasant sounding and invariably they accompany interesting folk enjoying the same thing you are. Just my two bits.
|
|
|
|
camera hauling, deli packing, stove exploder who bushwhacks ridges to false summits
South West corner of, BC
Canada
1557 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 6:49 PM
|
Count me in on the ney to bear bells list. Not near the city anyway. I find them totally out-of-place and annoying. I didn't come all the way out here just to hear John, Jane and Fifi. I did the Lynn Caynon to Shanon Falls hike on summer afternoon (my first time) and half the people had bells. The ones that were real confusing were the dogs with bells. An untrained city dog only gets you a 30 second head start. (Yap! Yap! Yap! thump....) And for a full grown grizzley, that's probably not enough. It could do thirty feet faster than you figure out which way to go. People make enough noise on their own.
I have just been told under good authority (retired BC Parks trail blazer/maintainance group leader) that if you're in real thick bear country (Tweedsmuir Park) it's a good idea. Different sizes for different notes. Black bears can't be predicted (so don't try for National Geographic honour roll pictures ) Being that it's spring, means there's cubs - and mothers. And we don't want to go there.
About seeing the natural wildlife: I know it's winter and everything is hibernating right now but with exception to chickadees and squirrels, I haven't seen any wildlife lately. Not even a slug!
The road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began...
Edited by - nomad on 03/13/2003 6:55:22 PM |
|
|
Coquitlam, BC
Canada
239 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 7:11 PM
|
Kinda like shaking the cat's crumble box and hollaring 'errrrrrr kitty, kitty!'
Share in the fun and savour the moment. |
|
|
|
Slo mo sno shuin' Great Wall trekkin' triathalon doin' pale ale drinkin' all Patrick, all the time, smoothie
2497 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 7:25 PM
|
quote:
I must say I don't find them offensive, in fact they are quite pleasant sounding and invariably they accompany interesting folk enjoying the same thing you are. Just my two bits.
I tend to agree with Chasman. My first experience with bells on the trail was a two month trekking trip in Nepal. Bells meant the approach of a cavavan with all it's interesting sights and smells. Whenever I hear bells on the trails now, it evokes fond memories of that trip so long ago.
Consequently, I have a bell that hangs off my pack that I never take off. I'm so used to it, I don't even hear it or if I do, for me, it provides the beat, like a soldier to the drum. I have a friend who spent most of the year searching for a bell that had a perfectly pleasing tone tone and another who uses a goat bell that was given to him by his Austrian grandfather - no his grandfather was not a goat ;-)
Imagine my surprise last year on the hike up Cheam when I passed a fellow who remarked in disgust about my bear bell. I know Cheam is a crowded trail and you don't normally need to make noise. (However a few years back I did meet a bear on that trail in the early morning). But the point is, the bell was there because it's always there. Up until then I'd never given a thought to the fact that I was adding noise pollution to everyone elses wilderness experience.
So these postings have been a learning experince for me. I'm now aware that one person's bell *music* is another person's *noise*. And I shall use my bell more judiciously.
|
|
|
|
Trail running, bike hucking, fast packing, beer drinking collector of pine cones on a day pass
AKA
Dances with Trees
Forest Gnome Cabin
Canada
13090 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 11:12 PM
|
I guess I'm a no vote for bells too.The truth is,most animals have seen or heard you long before you ever see them.They say grizzlies are famous for tracking hunters while they themselves are being tracked.When I'm in the woods,I just make noise and try to note the wind direction.If the wind is carrying your scent the animals will almost always pick it up.
Love running into groups of hikers with bells on the Baden Powell-especially near Deep Cove Lookout-what bear in his right mind wants to hang out with 100 or so of his best hiking buddies.Nah,if you're going to wear a bell,at least be selling ice cream!Let's see,I'll take a fudgesicle,two revells,and...
Mick
|
|
|
|
Heavy gear-carrying camera-toting asylum escapee
Victoria, BC
Canada
339 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 11:36 PM
|
When I hike alone in bear or cougar country, I sing. I figure that should scare even the largest beast away.
Nathan
|
|
|
Rmd, BC
Canada
1360 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 11:47 PM
|
Thats a good point. If you're relying on bells to announce your presence, the bear probably smelled you before he heard the bells anyway. Kodiak brought an air horn when we did the Elaho Valley last year. I was SO wishing I had that thing when I got lost in the Barkley Valley a few weeks later. After 4 hours of yelling "YOOOOOOOO BEAR!" at the top of my lungs as we trudged through what was very obviously bear country I would have sold my last power bar for an air horn. I tend not to worry much about bears. I've read that book someone mentioned earlier, I'm very careful with my food, and I use common sense. If after all that a bear's gonna get me.... well, I suppose there are worse ways to go.
|
|
|
|
Heavy gear-carrying camera-toting asylum escapee
Victoria, BC
Canada
339 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2003 : 11:54 PM
|
That's a pretty scary thought. I guess though you only have to go through the list of Darwin award winners to see worse ways of going.
On a related note, I was driving by my parent place out in Belcarra a while ago and saw a small brown bear on the road in front of me. I saw why they say not to climb a tree to evade a brown bear. It was incredible how fast that guy climbed to get out of the way of my car!
Nathan
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Bear Bells - to ring or not to ring...
